Midnight Voices                      
The discussion forum for fans of Pete Atkin and Clive James,
their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.

Web Digest week 27 (01.03.98, MV732 - 745) begins | index | prev | next |
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From: "andy & lynn" <email address>
Subject: MV732: The Road of Silk
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:24:00 -0000

I was browsing through a second hand record shop in Leicester last week.  This 
was mainly out of nostalgia as I haven't bought vinyl for years.  I came across 
a copy of the Road of Silk.  I Nearly bought it to keep my other copy company 
but resisted the temptation.  Is any one interested in me buying it and sending 
it to them?  In a perfect world I could swop it for a copy of 'The Beautiful 
Changes'.
  
Let me know
  
Andy

==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 19:33:47
Subject: MV733: Monyash CDs
From: <email address> (John N L Morrison)


I suppose it qualifies as a lurker to have all the Midnight
Voices compilations filed and not have posted anything
yet. However I've been following the rediscovery of Pete &
Clive with fascination - I have every record they produced
and still remember their live concert at the Shaw Theatre
(Pete sang, Clive recited). Pete did "Canoe", for which I've
been looking ever since. Now I can hear it on RealAudio
whenever I want. Bought the new CD as soon as I could (Tower
Piccadilly Circus) and will acquire any more for listening in
the car. 

However....somewhere in the mass of correspondence over
the past 6 months must be a posting telling one how to order
the Monyash CDs. And is there a video? I can't get it
from the WWW and really can't face ploughing through all
that text - can someone advise? 

John N L Morrison

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Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:48:33 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV734 Re: MV733: Monyash CDs

Hi John ...

And thanks for speaking up -- we seem to need a few fresh voices now the
old regulars have largely run out of things to say!

But I'll bet there's 120-odd readers out there, seeing your message, who
prayed it didn't trigger your host into trotting out the old "here's how to
get your Monyash recordings" shpiel again.

Well, they need have no fear. Since you have them all on file, you need
only go to MV710, or MV689, or several earlier ones, to find the answers
you need. These are not yet on the Web archive, but will be (sans
addresses) very soon.

However I must add that we're down to only a handful of the videotapes now,
so the 'sold out' sign will soon be going up, for the video at least.

While I'm here, may I recommend a peep at the New Musical Express article
from 1991, interviewing Pete and Clive, new on the Website today, at
http://www.rwt.co.uk/nmepiece.htm
-- thanks to Jeremy Walton, who never did get help with his transcription
of "My Friend The Sun" (see MV615).

All the Best

-- Steve

==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 22:29:04 -0800
From: m.powell<email address>
Subject: MV735: Buxton etc

I left it late saying anything about Buxton - a mistake.  But better
late than never.

My comments about the proposed event on September 20th are neither
special pleading because I can't go nor a display of ingratitude to
Steve Birkill for his efforts.  Perhaps my fears are unduly pessimistic
but I feel duty bound to voice them even if I am subsequently shown to
be a complete prat.  I fear that the turnout could be poor and if so
then there could be a number of unwelcome consequences.  The event might
be disappointing for Pete and for those who do turn up - I assume the
opera house is large and a small audience in a large formal venue is
usually quite a dampener.  At an event like Monyash it would be much
more easily absorbed.  I also assume, perhaps a complete misconception,
that Steve is taking another financial risk but I have no evidence for
this and even if he is I have no idea how much is involved.  After all
his efforts so far I do not want to see him out of pocket at Buxton but
at the end of the day this is none of my business.  Finally, nothing
seems to have gone wrong so far with the revival project and being an
over cautious sort of person I would not take a risk like Buxton at this
stage but again this is my opinion and I do not have all the information
available to Steve.  In spite of these reservations I am very doubtful
about Steve's confidence in how many people would (say) do the
equivalent of drive back from London on a Sunday night after a show.  

Evidence for the above:

1.  Turnout at Winchester: 40.  This is not an accusation that people
lack commitment, simply an observation.  I wasn't there either.

2.  Takeup of Monyash product by Midnight Voices:  apparently about
50%.  Not only that Steve had to plead for fulfilment of initial orders
and this takes no more effort than putting a cheque in an envelope.

3.  I organised a group of 7 (including Mel and myself) for Monyash.  If
1998 were a straight repeat I could deliver 6 of the 7 with no problem
at all and possibly add 4 more new ones.  If Buxton goes ahead then the
other 4 of the original 6 (admittedly from Scotland) will definitely not
go and Mel and I will be doubtful until the very last minute for reasons
of unpredictable work and domestic commitments.  Our friends are
fanatics so when they drop out I start to feel very uneasy.

In the light of the above I think Buxton would be unwise unless there is
a substantial financial commitment up front from this group and whatever
happens our preference would be a straight repeat of Monyash 97.  But as
I say this is actually none of my business and I am more or less
disqualified from comment by being far too late.  Steve might have
booked it by now anyway.

I hope nobody else has taken any offence from this because none was
intended.  I will do everything I can to attend the next event and if I
can't I hope it goes well anyway.  The good news (for some of you) is
that Mel is bursting with literary dissections of other songs so get
ready.

Mike Powell

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Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 21:37:43 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV736 Re: MV615: Warning - non PA content

Jeremy,

Try this:
http://members.aol.com/songforme/chords/band.htm#6

-- Steve

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From: "lynn sheppard" <email address>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 22:59:14 +0000
Subject: MV737 Re: MV735: Buxton etc

I am a new member and i dont want to butt in, but i share Mikes 
misgivings  about Buxton. i know from personal experience that this 
is a large venue and they have some trouble filling it at some 
Festival dates. I think an intimate club atmosphere would be better 
suited and more user friendly.   Lynn.

==============================================================================
From: Mark Roberts <email address>
Subject: MV738 RE: MV735: Buxton etc
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:07:40 -0000

>----------
>From: 	Midnight Voices[SMTP:<email address>]
>Sent: 	03 March 1998 22:38
>To: 	The recipient's address is unknown.
>Subject: 	MV735: Buxton etc
>
>Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 22:29:04 -0800
>From: m.powell<email address>
>To: midnight.voices<email address>
>Subject: Buxton etc
>
>The event might be disappointing for Pete and for those who do turn up - I
>assume the
>opera house is large and a small audience in a large formal venue is
>usually quite a dampener.  

I would agree, I went to 5 of Pete's gigs last year ( my girlfriend is
starting to get suspicous ! ) and the best nights (IMHO) were the two
smaller venues in Oxford and Islington. Winchester was not a large venue
but even there the turnaout of 40 looked a bit sparse and did nothing
for atmosphere.

However, I must say I appreciate Steve's efforts and will do my best to
be there.


Regards,

Mark Roberts.


Mondex International Limited
<postal address>
Registered No: 3122085, England
Telephone No: <phone number>
Web Site: http://www.mondex.com

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:43:08 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>)
Subject: MV739 Re: MV736; MV615: Warning - non PA content

>> Jeremy,
>> 
>> Try this:
>> http://members.aol.com/songforme/chords/band.htm#6

Ah, the rewards for a night spent typing that NME article in!  Many,
many thanks, Steve - you've made a happy man very old (as PA commented
at Charlbury last year).  

Cheers,

Jeremy

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:40:12 +0000
From: Pete Smith <email address>
Subject: MV740 Re: MV738; MV735: Buxton etc

>
>I would agree, I went to 5 of Pete's gigs last year ( my girlfriend is
>starting to get suspicous ! ) and the best nights (IMHO) were the two
>smaller venues in Oxford and Islington. Winchester was not a large venue
>but even there the turnaout of 40 looked a bit sparse and did nothing
>for atmosphere.
>
Another new(ish) member with an opinion. I've only seen Pete perform
once, it was at my son's school, St Olave's in Orpington, towards the
end of 1996. There were about 40-50 people in a hall designed for
hundreds, but we clustered round the stage and we could virtually reach
out and touch the great man. I don't agree that Pete's performance would
necessarily suffer from sparse attendance in an over-large venue, as
long as everyone moved down the front and forgot about the empty spaces
behind.

I taped this concert by the way, if anyone's interested I'll try and
find the cassette.

Pete (no relation) Smith  
-- 
Pete Smith

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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:26:38 +0000
From: Christine Guilfoyle <email address>
Subject: MV741 Re: MV735: Buxton etc

In message <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>
>In the light of the above I think Buxton would be unwise unless there is
>a substantial financial commitment up front from this group and whatever
>happens our preference would be a straight repeat of Monyash 97.  But as
>I say this is actually none of my business and I am more or less
>disqualified from comment by being far too late.  Steve might have
>booked it by now anyway.
>
I guess I can understand the concerns about Buxton - it's true that the
Opera House is a moderately large (if excellent) venue. However, I just
wonder if we're being a touch defeatist here. After all, there are 7
months to the scheduled date - there is time, if we want to, to build on
Steve's excellent efforts and start to develop more of a head of steam
(which, as we all know, pushes connecting rods fixed to the wheels which
are set on the rails, and that's not the end of the story...) around
Pete and his reputation. The BOH manages to achieve decent turnouts for
a wide range of performers, and I don't see why Pete shouldn't be
amongst them. 

I suspect that there are an awful lot of people around who would
potentially enjoy Pete Atkin's music. These include those who saw/heard
him first time round and maybe aren't aware he's still performing, but
also (I think) many who would simply enjoy what is, at the most basic
level, highly entertaining singing and songwriting. I sometimes wonder
if we true believers are a little too precious about the 'highbrow'
elements of the songs, and that we've actually done Pete a disservice by
pigeon-holing his music as 'intellectual'. While it's certainly more
cerebral that most popular music, I think we forget that a lot of it is
just plain pleasant to listen to. My experience in introducing people to
Pete's music over the years is that, while a few people switch off
instantly (mentally if not literally), the great majority rapidly get
enthusiastic. To take the most extraordinary example, my sister, whose
musical taste is otherwise pretty much non-existent (she likes Queen,
and actually possesses two records by Bruce Willis. Yes, I know, and
she's a teacher, so the nation's youth is in her hands), rushed out and
bought the 'Touch has a Memory' CD because she loved the songs. 

My point, I suppose, is that, rather than expressing Cassandra-like
expressions of doom, we should put the effort into making Buxton a
success. Yes, it's a Sunday. Yes, it's a long way from London (rather a
selling point, I'd have thought). But it's a great venue in a beautiful
town, within easy striking distance of Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds,
Nottingham, Derby etc. My suggestion is that we spend some of the next
few months developing a genuine marketing strategy for this (do we have
any expertise out there in Midnight Voice land?). I think as the time
gets nearer there are countless opportunities to promote it through
local press, radio, TV, etc, particularly if we use Clive James' name as
a trigger for attention, as well as the BOH's own pretty good publicity
machine. The trick will be to build up and sustain the interest, but it
seems feasible to me, unless we prefer to remain elitist in our
enthusiasm. 

Well, it's a thought, anyway. Once more into the breach, dear friends. 

-- 
Mike Walters

==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:17:33 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>)
Subject: MV742 Re: MV741; MV735: Buxton etc

Hi Mike,

>> My point, I suppose, is that, rather than expressing Cassandra-like
>> expressions of doom, we should put the effort into making Buxton a
>> success. Yes, it's a Sunday. Yes, it's a long way from London (rather a
>> selling point, I'd have thought). But it's a great venue in a beautiful
>> town, within easy striking distance of Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds,
>> Nottingham, Derby etc. My suggestion is that we spend some of the next
>> few months developing a genuine marketing strategy for this (do we have
>> any expertise out there in Midnight Voice land?). I think as the time
>> gets nearer there are countless opportunities to promote it through
>> local press, radio, TV, etc, particularly if we use Clive James' name as
>> a trigger for attention, as well as the BOH's own pretty good publicity
>> machine. 

I'd agree (even speaking as someone who doesn't yet know whether he'd be
able to drag anyone along to the concert).  The key point of reference
always seems to be CJ.  See, for example, the NME article on the website
which was part of the revival associated with the THAM CD.  This is an
article which is mostly about what CJ says and what he's been doing,
rather than this other chap who gets to sing the songs.  Clearly it
makes sense to exploit CJ's greater visibility.  I don't know how this
could relate to the concert (would he attend?  If so, what contribution
could he make?  He's already pointed out how hard it is to get a plug in
in interviews, etc) but it seems to be an avenue worth exploring in the
time available.

Cheers,

Jeremy

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| Jeremy Walton                                            <email address> |
| The Numerical Algorithms Group Ltd, Oxford, UK       Tel: <phone number> |
|                                                      Fax:  <fax number>  |
| IRIS Explorer Center URL:          http://www.nag.co.uk/Welcome_IEC.html |
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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 15:45:53 +0000
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV743 Re: MV734; MV733: Monyash CDs

At 20:52 03/03/98 +0000, you wrote:
>While I'm here, may I recommend a peep at the New Musical Express article
>from 1991, interviewing Pete and Clive, new on the Website today, at
>http://www.rwt.co.uk/nmepiece.htm
>-- thanks to Jeremy Walton, who never did get help with his transcription
>of "My Friend The Sun" (see MV615).

Steve and Jeremy, thanks for putting up the NME transcription - must admit
I'd stopped reading NME around twenty years earlier!

It was a good interview and in the light of the current Steve B-led revival,
perhaps we could persuade the NME or someone (does NME still exist?) to
rerun it. My only grouse - Clive contrasts CJ/PA with other bands of the
time including a disparaging reference to Tales of Topographic Oceans.
Having just returned from the Hammersmith Apollo mind-blown by an awesome
performance by the Yes (original line-up except for Rick Wakeman) including
20 mins of said album I can confirm that pomp rock and Pete Atkin can sit
together comfortably in one Voice's brain at least!

BTW I say go for Buxton - let's paint the town!


Leslie

==============================================================================
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV744 RE: MV743; MV734; MV733: Monyash CDs
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:26:20 -0500

>Having just returned from the Hammersmith Apollo mind-blown by an awesome
>performance by the Yes (original line-up except for Rick Wakeman) including
>20 mins of said album I can confirm that pomp rock and Pete Atkin can sit
>together comfortably in one Voice's brain at least!

I second that emotion, though currently Pete gets more braintime than
Anderson and Co.  Also in the CD collection are the Floyd, Joni Mitchell,
P. Gabriel, Stephane Grapelli, John Mayall, John Martyn, Jethro Tull,
sundry classicals, old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all.  I admit that 
"Topographic Oceans" and its ilk have their cringeworthy moments,
and their fabulous production costs were a hot topic of the time, but with
selective listening I still enjoy most of what I originally had on vinyl and
now have on CD.  And just to show I'm not just a nostalgia freak, I have
recently enjoyed Bjork, Reeves Gabrels (highly recommended for heavy
guitar fans) and the work of one Amy Rigby, who, being of the urban
cowgirl persuasion, may or may not be heard of in the UK.  Worth a listen
if you can find her, though.

To lurch back to Pete, it would be interesting to hear if he feels he has
picked up any other influences since the mid-70s.  He mentioned Steely
Dan recently, one of the few 'mainstream' artists besides himself who
work in the outer reaches of harmony on a routine basis.  I also wonder
if he's ever been tempted to pen some music for his radio productions.

Dave Jones,
Eclectic collector in Rochester NY.

==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 14:05:50 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV745: Thanking all for advice re Buxton venture 

Well, it's good to have some input from our 'membership' -- we don't have
many other sources.

I'm assuming all will have read Carole's original request for 1998 suggestions
(MV57, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig002.htm#mv57) and the responses:
Mike Hodges      (MV58, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig002.htm#mv58)
Cary Bernard     (MV59, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig002.htm#mv59)
Mark Roberts     (MV63, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig002.htm#mv63)
Mary Shipway     (MV71, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig002.htm#mv71)
Dave Bondy       (MV91, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig003.htm#mv91);

-- and our announcement of the Buxton proposal,
(MV591, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig020.htm#mv591) and responses:
Ian Sorensen     (MV593, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig020.htm#mv593)
Cary             (MV595, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig020.htm#mv595)
Mike & Christine (MV600, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig020.htm#mv600),
(also Mike & Christine's private e-mail 22.01.98 offering help with
organising the event);

-- and the reawakening of discussion with Mike Powell raising doubts about
the advisability of the Sunday fixture, at first in MV716:
(MV716, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig025.htm#mv716) with my response in MV718
(MV718, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig026.htm#mv718) and follow-ups from
Dave Fisher      (MV719, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig026.htm#mv719)
Dave Jones       (MV721, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig026.htm#mv721)
Ian Chippett     (MV723, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig026.htm#mv723) and
Leslie Moss      (MV724, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig026.htm#mv724);

-- and then more strongly:
(MV735, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig027.htm#mv735),
(also Mike's private communication 01.03.98 expressing the same concerns);
and further debate:
Lynn Sheppard    (MV737, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig027.htm#mv737)
Mark Roberts     (MV738, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig027.htm#mv738)
Pete Smith       (MV740, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig027.htm#mv740)
Mike Walters     (MV741, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig027.htm#mv741)
Jeremy Walton    (MV742, http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvdig027.htm#mv742).

If you haven't checked these out they are now all available in our Web
digest -- see the full index at http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm . If your
e-mail client is correctly configured to work with your Web browser the
above URLs will appear as clickable links, taking you directly to the cited
message.

Thanks to you all (and to anyone I've missed in checking through the
message headers) for expressing your opinions.

Yes, Monyash 97 was a magically successful day for all concerned, but only
through a tremendous amount of behind-the-scenes preparation: Carole and I
are not the kind of people to settle for less than the best, or leave
things (avoidably) to chance. We had to comply with the so-called "pop
code" in the areas of stewarding, first aid, toilets, communications,
signs, seating, emergency lighting and many lesser things, and accept no
compromises. We planned for a maximum attendance of 500, so that's what we
had to cater for. And of course we had to organise all our own publicity,
including magazine and newspaper advertising, local radio plugs, posters,
thousands of flyers. The village charitable status brought in a lot of
help, but it had to be managed.

And imagine if it had been the following evening instead: torrential rain,
the field a quagmire, thunderstorms and power interruptions of several
minutes at a time. Most of our ticket sales were in advance, to PA fans.
The five-pound afternoon-only folk contingent were unwilling to pay in
advance -- the weather would have kept them away, as it would the (approx)
local 20% of our evening audience who paid at the gate. The 1997 afternoon
folk artists, with the exception of Tony Capstick, gave their services free
of charge. This would not have been the case in a second year.

The festival cleared close to £1000, all expenses paid -- we stumped up for
the publicity ourselves. Sales of festival recordings (again, thanks to all
who have supported us) have raised a similar amount for the fund.

The concern in repeating the festival this year was that, very simply, and
despite all the work, the magic might not have been there. Not that,
honestly, we could afford to put so much time and effort into it again. We
had to make the 1998 show bigger and better for the fans, but less work for
the organisers!

1997 was ground-breaking for Pete: he'd been playing isolated folk club
gigs for some of his old chums at the rate of about 1.5 appearances per
year. With (and without) the help of the Internet (and the MVs) he played a
club in the spring, then the festival in the summer and then 3 more club
evenings in the autumn. Not exactly the hectic pace of the early '70s 
(see http://www.rwt.co.uk/pagiglst.htm )
but heck, the man has a day job now! And we got Julie Covington back on stage.

So we didn't want "Monyash 98" to be just another little gig -- any of you
could book Pete for a small hall or a room over a pub (if he was willing),
or indeed one of the 2 or 3 classier venues proposed by some of our
members. Let someone else do that -- ours had to be different!

Buxton Opera House is in the same part of the country, about eight or nine
miles from here. It's in a wonderful setting, with good dining and
accommodation hard by. It's compact -- a seating capacity of 750, not much
more than twice the crowd we drew at Monyash, and if we didn't fill the
gods or the rearmost stalls then what the heck. And BOH would take over,
for a modest fee, all the hassles: front-of-house, bar, ticketing,
publicity, and of course all the infrastructure is already there. We could
perhaps have had the lovely Brent Mason back to open for Pete, and of
course the setting would have provided the necessary backstage facilities
-- I'm sure if CJ were to put in an appearance he'd have been much happier
in a theatre than in a field. And the opportunity for proselytisation was
there, albeit perhaps limited to Buxton's catchment area, though this
includes the conurbation of greater Manchester and the stockbroker belt of
Cheshire.

But -- we were too late to book a Saturday night before 1999. And ... we
didn't ourselves think that mattered too much. However ... some of our
potential audience didn't agree. Mike Powell's party was the biggest single
contingent at Monyash 97, and included some people, big fans, from
Scotland. And if they couldn't come, how many others, MVs or otherwise,
would equally have been prevented from attending. Mike was also concerned
that we might suffer financially from a low turnout, as well as the
dampening effect it would have on the show's atmosphere. And yes, we could
admit that it's not a 'first' any more, that we couldn't depend on last
year's 300 to show up again, or even all the 100 or so within-range Voices
and their partners. Plus the underwhelming response (though again thanks to
all who have spoken up, some highly supportively) on our network must carry 
a not-too-deeply-hidden meaning.

So, ever over-eager to please, we're on the point of pulling the plug on
Buxton. This week is go/no-go time. We've looked at small studio-type
theatres (300-400 seaters) in the nearby cities, but they're comparatively
expensive, don't offer help with publicity, and are mostly booked up for
Saturday nights this year. There may be something to be done in a
mini-theatre setting in one of the nearby stately homes, a Voices-only
event, but that gets us a bit too near to folk club territory. So it might
have to be 1999, if the Atkin revival has enough momentum to last till then
...

We'll let you know by the end of the week.

Steve and Carole Birkill

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