Midnight Voices                      
The discussion forum for fans of Pete Atkin and Clive James,
their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.

Web Digest week 26 (22.02.98, MV718 - 731) begins | index | prev | next |
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:33:47 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV718: Nothing left to say?

Hello all -

Yes, we're still here. Well, at least I am. 

In the absence of group discussion of some of the recent posts, here are my
own thoughts. But first the news:

I haven't welcomed any new members by name for some time. We've recently
(in the last month or so) added Alun Lewis, Graham Stibbs, Jon Ray, Stephen
Coles, Ian Davie, Jeffrey Sloneem, Roger Spires, Mike Millen, John Fuery,
Terry Roberts, Robin Schoolar, Lynn Sheppard, Jim Arnold and Steve Reels.
Apologies if I've missed anyone, or if I've named you when you'd rather
have remained anonymous! We've also had 2 resignations. The circulation
list total now stands at 124.

The most recent addition to the Website is the sessionography -- all we
have  on Pete's radio and TV recording sessions over the years, with the
exception of a few oddballs, and the two LWT series. The latter I'll be
adding shortly -- we have running orders and personnel for The Party's
Moving On and for 4 shows in the WAYDATS series, thanks to Graham Stibbs
and Pete. Also to be added are the Live Libel and "7th Album Demos" session
diaries. The radio/TV sessionography is at
http://www.rwt.co.uk/sessbbc.htm

I seem to have allowed the MV archive to stagnate -- I must get around to
adding the messages up to date. Though it doesn't seem to get much traffic ...
http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm

I've also got a number of chord transcriptions from Ian Chippett which I
need to ask Pete to check before we add them to the site ( -- we like to be
sure they're right, although Ian's far better at it than I am). I aim to
add those a.s.a.p.

Oh yes, and RWT's Web operations have this week moved to a new, faster
server, still in Maryland USA. So the pages should be noticeably quicker to
load.

Re MV699: Beautiful Changes on CD (Mike Walters)

Yes, I agree TBC with Julie's Virgin album would be a natural pairing for
CD reissue. No doubt there are some other tracks around which could be
included, running time permitting. Let's hope it can be organised. Someone
mailed me a couple of days ago to ask whether the Virgin album ("Julie
Covington", 1978) had ever been out on CD. Julie doesn't know, but I'm
reminded of a visit to Tower Records, Piccadilly Circus, maybe 4 years ago,
when I was (quite out of character I must add) browsing the "Easy
Listening" section, which at that time was on the mezzanine between ground
floor and subway level, now occupied by soi-disant dance music. I came upon
a CD spacer (no CDs in the section though) printed (white on black, the way
they do) "Julie Covington". I didn't query it at the time, and I've never
seen the album listed on CD or offered for sale second-hand. Anyone know?

Re: MV701: Magpie Chart Comments Box (Gerry Smith)

I'm afraid I missed the earlier ones, but I've captured Dave Jones' and
Tony Currie's comments, and made them available on our site, at 
http://www.rwt.co.uk/magcmnt.htm
-- hope Magpie doesn't mind -- it's all more publicity for them really.

Re: MV705: Apparition in Derbyshire (Dave Jones)

Thank you Dave for your kind words. You mention Pete's verbal fluffs, and I
suppose one of the aspects of the CDs I'm least happy about is the savage
editing I had to do to retain two of the songs in the running, in one case
to the exclusion of half a verse. Compare the CD and videotape versions!

Re: MV709: Canoe (Ian Chippett)

No, I'm not too strong on the shells/feathers exchange rate, either. I
suppose I felt it just as a broad evocation of the Polynesian islanders'
customs, as Dave Jones suggests (MV712).

Re: MV716 Re: MV714: Canoe (Mike Powell)

We studied long and hard the best time to schedule the concert. Many people
had to miss our festival last year because they were away on summer hols.
Before the summer vac., June say, was a problem with exams for some, early
holidays, general uncertainties. After seemed better -- most people would
be back at work/school by late September. And the weather (we hadn't in the
early stages decided whether to stage it as another outdoor festival or
not) would be more likely to be stable in September. It needed to be a
weekend so that people would be happier to take a whole day or days out for
the trip. But Saturday was not going to be easy: Buxton hosts a whole round
of festivals, shows, opera, dance, touring drama companies, most of which
finish their run on a Saturday; Sundays were still up for grabs for one-off
events. A provincial theatre normally has a catchment area of a few tens of
miles radius, and within this no-one expects to stay overnight. Some of
Buxton's events, like the Gilbert and Sullival and Alexis Korner festivals,
attract people from much further afield (including the USA) and then of
course accommodation becomes an issue. We reasoned, rightly or wrongly,
that though we were in that category most of our audience would be able to
make arrangements, given sufficient notice, to cover the Monday (duty
swaps, leave etc.) if they wanted to stay over. Those who couldn't (like I
guess the teaching profession) might have to return home after the show. At
least Buxton is comparatively central to the mainland's population
distribution -- we'd think nothing of driving home from London after a
visit to the theatre if we needed to be back in the office the following
morning, so a similar willingness on the part of our patrons in the same
position was assumed (though we did encounter a curious reluctance among
some even to travel up-country for last year's Saturday festival -- they
asked for a gig nearer home! Others were happy to knock themselves out: two
brothers came along to our Friday night pre-festival party, then drove back
to London for a family engagement on Saturday morning, only to return to
Monyash in the afternoon for the festival. It depends I suppose how much
you want to be there). Again, the annual Alexis Korner memorial event takes
place on a Sunday night, brings people to Buxton from across the world as
well as the country to see the best of British blues and jazz-oriented
rock, and it's always a sell-out. Of course not everyone who teaches can
return home Sunday night -- I doubt our friend Ian C could grab a flight
back from Manchester to Paris Sunday night after the show, so I hope he --
they -- will be able to arrange something.

So to answer Mike's question, no, it's not too late to change -- we're due
to sign up the venue any day now -- but the alternatives are few and have
their own problems. I took it that the absence of comment after MV716 meant
that it wasn't seen by many as a difficulty. Was I wrong? I'm looking not
so much for alternative suggestions -- some may already have built their
holiday schedules around our date -- but some indication of how right or
wrong we might have got it.

I would however welcome suggestions on (the old theme) how we should go
about reaching the others. Remember your college days. Look at the '70s gig
diary
http://www.rwt.co.uk/pagiglst.htm
All those venues: pubs, folk clubs, schools, polys, universities, concert
halls -- audience anywhere between 25 and 1000 perhaps, say 75 modest
average. Mostly independent -- only a small hard core of travelling
followers. OK, say most came along for the show, didn't connect, leaving
perhaps 25 average per gig stunned, whelmed, whatever, going out to buy the
record the next day, telling their friends what they missed. Times what,
about 350 gigs, haven't counted them, say 100 if we allow for repeat
appearances in the same area. Conservative estimates I think: 2500 souls
who saw Pete on stage back then and thought he was pretty well all right.
Where have they all gone?

Is it chauvinism to believe they feel the same way still, as we Voices do?
Surely it would be so to assume they're all on the Internet! We are the
lucky 5% -- there must be 19 times our number out there with no idea that
Pete's back, and every willingness to fight over the 900 or so seats in
Buxton Opera House to see him again.

Comments?

The lines are open awaiting your calls: Midnight Voices <email address>!

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From: Dave Fisher <email address>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:42:11 GMT
Subject: MV719 Re: MV718: Nothing left to say?

> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:33:47 +0000
> To: Midnight Voices <email address>
> From: S J Birkill <email address>
> Subject: Nothing left to say?
>
[snip]
> 
> So to answer Mike's question, no, it's not too late to change -- we're due
> to sign up the venue any day now -- but the alternatives are few and have
> their own problems. I took it that the absence of comment after MV716 meant
> that it wasn't seen by many as a difficulty. Was I wrong? I'm looking not
> so much for alternative suggestions -- some may already have built their
> holiday schedules around our date -- but some indication of how right or
> wrong we might have got it.

Steve has made possible something I thought had gone forever - a chance to see 
Pete perform again. I have changed the dates of a proposed business trip to 
Spain to be there.

Steve should be congratulated for providing us with this opportunity. I am 
amazed he sounds only slightly peeved. I would not have reacted so calmly.

Dave Fisher

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From: "lynn sheppard" <email address>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:48:30 +0000
Subject: MV720 Re: MV719; MV718: Nothing left to say?

hi! this is my first letter to midnight voices as i am new to the 
net! found you lot within the first hour however! bit intimidated by 
being the only new girl member but you all seem a nice bunch of 
chaps! i first discovered pete and clive in 1972 when i was wooed 
with their music by my then boyfriend now husband. i saw them perform 
in various universities round the country, and as i now work at 
portsmouth university and have two grown up student sons who both 
appreciate their music, why not investigate that circuit. train a new 
generation, thats what i say!! in fact, my middle son is studying 
english in lampeter being influenced by my research into lyric 
sources!! anyway back to the housework!!! love lynn

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From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV721 RE: MV718: Nothing left to say?
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:57:06 -0500

-----Original Message-----
From:	Midnight Voices <email address>
Sent:	Wednesday, February 25, 1998 6:38 PM
To:	"Midnight Voices":;
Subject:	MV718: Nothing left to say?

>I've also got a number of chord transcriptions from Ian Chippett which I
>need to ask Pete to check before we add them to the site ( -- we like to be
>sure they're right, although Ian's far better at it than I am). I aim to
>add those a.s.a.p.

Would it be appropriate to list the names of upcoming transcriptions ?
I'm sure I'm not alone in taking my own stabs at chord sequences, 
especially now I have the video to work from. For instance, I'm
feeling pretty confident about, well, "For instance" (taking a heavy
hint from "Payday Evening"), and I'm bending my less-than-golden
ear around "Wristwatch" and "Thief in the Night".  Not that this all
isn't good practice anyway, but if I'm going to send stuff in it would
be nice to know what's already in the pipe.

Speaking of the video, I encourage US and Canadian Voices to
get those orders in and clear out the remaining stock of NTSC
copies.  I called Richard Ross at 6 a.m.-ish Eastern Time and 
he was most accomodating.  The video arrived in 7 days 
(many thanks to you and your helpers, Steve!).
While there are no Golden Rose's in Steve's future (yet), this
video certainly has its golden moments, such as seeing Julie
getting swept away by "The Magic wasn't there".

Speaking of Julie, Pete plays with tremendous authority
when he's backing her.  I really do regret not having heard
"The Beautiful Changes".

>Oh yes, and RWT's Web operations have this week moved to a new, faster
>server, still in Maryland USA. So the pages should be noticeably quicker to
>load.

Rutland Weekend Television has a Web site ?

>Re: MV701: Magpie Chart Comments Box (Gerry Smith)
>I'm afraid I missed the earlier ones, but I've captured Dave Jones' and
>Tony Currie's comments, and made them available on our site, at 
>http://www.rwt.co.uk/magcmnt.htm
>-- hope Magpie doesn't mind -- it's all more publicity for them really.

Oh good, I was most annoyed to see mine disappear, with no backup
copy I could repost from. Either they're particularly dim at Magpie or
they have a lot of system rebuilds.  The software they use looks like
it might be the same as I've seen at sites like www.amazon.com,
an online bookstore.  It always seemed stable enough there....

Regrets and envy about Buxton.  Paris may be just a hop, skip and
a jump away, but Kodak's home town is a different matter (they
haven't moved to Mexico - yet).  This time, I hope there are plenty of
cameras running, including some up on stage.  My rule when taping
is get as close as possible without actually being inside the subject's
clothing.  Really endears me to my kids....

Dave Jones
Up close and personal in Rochester NY.

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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:29:59 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV722 Re: MV721; MV718: Nothing left to say? (Transcriptions)

At 14:45 26.02.98 +0000, Dave Jones (via Midnight Voices) wrote:
>
>Would it be appropriate to list the names of upcoming transcriptions ?
>I'm sure I'm not alone in taking my own stabs at chord sequences, 
>especially now I have the video to work from. For instance, I'm
>feeling pretty confident about, well, "For instance" (taking a heavy
>hint from "Payday Evening"), and I'm bending my less-than-golden
>ear around "Wristwatch" and "Thief in the Night".  Not that this all
>isn't good practice anyway, but if I'm going to send stuff in it would
>be nice to know what's already in the pipe.
>
Well, the ones in the buffer at present are
History and Geography
The Beautiful Changes
The Magic Wasn't There
Search and Destroy
Song for Rita
Canoe
Thirty Year Man

-- Steve

==============================================================================
From: IChippett <email address>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:51:40 EST
Subject: MV723 Re : MV718: Nothing left to say?

Gilbert and Sullival? As a Bristolian with a strong local accent I know what
Sullival is but is it a suitable topic for a respectable group like ours? Not
to mention Gilbert. Shouldn't we leave this to the punks?

I'm still working on a scheme to get across to Derbyshire which doesn't
involve instant dismissal from my various jobs and/or divorce but, if all else
fails, couldn't Pete come and do a free  concert in my mum's front room in
Wells? It's not far from  Bristol and I'll get her to make one of her trifles.

Ian C

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Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:26:35 +0000
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV724 Re: MV718: Nothing left to say?

At 23:38 25/02/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:33:47 +0000
>To: Midnight Voices <email address>
>From: S J Birkill <email address>
>Others were happy to knock themselves out: two
>brothers came along to our Friday night pre-festival party, then drove back
>to London for a family engagement on Saturday morning, only to return to
>Monyash in the afternoon for the festival.

... and we (Jeff and I)  drove back to London again the same night (we did
somewhat regret it the next morning it must be said!).

I'm definitely on for September 20th but post-concert drinks and a drive
back to London to same night will not mix, so a slightly less frenetic visit
this time. If I can persuade my wife to come to we'll make it a weekend and
visit the folk festival too.

[Note from Steve: no word yet on whether the village is oranising the Folk 
Festival concurrently, or otherwise]

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Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:48:30 +0900
From: john fuery <email address>
Subject: MV725: new member

dear midnight voices

read about your site in an issue of Mojo in november
in vietnam where I spent a year working as C.D. of an
ad agency. (sadly, i did not manage to meet anyone by
the name of kovacs or polonsky).

finally managed to see the site when i moved back to
hong kong -it's every bit as good as Mojo said. and it's
great to see that there are still pete atkin fans out
there. have today ordered the monyash c.d.roms (scuse
my ignorance, but will these things actually play on
a regular cd or do i have to play them on my pc?

also can anyone out there tell me how you can order
the"beautiful stranger/mythical america" cd from
magpie? their site is not very informative re either
ordering procedures via credit card or overseas air
mail rates.

couple of queries you may be able to help me with:
firstly, how many copies of each album did pete sell
first time around? secondly, are there any chances
of the stuff that pete recorded for the john peel show
every getting reissued.

again many, many thanks for a terrific web-site, and
keep up the good work!

kind regards and best wishes from recession-stricken
asia.

john fuery

==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:43:28 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV726 Re: MV725: new member

At 10:17 27.02.98 +0000, John Fuery (via Midnight Voices) wrote:
>
> ... have today ordered the monyash c.d.roms (scuse
>my ignorance, but will these things actually play on
>a regular cd or do i have to play them on my pc?
>
They're not CD-ROMs John, they're CD-Rs, recordable CDs which are fully Red
Book compliant and with no data tracks, the same as pressed silver audio
CDs, just easier to make in small quantities. So they will play on standard
audio CD players. Some people had problems with our early Disc 2's, made on
Ricoh media which wasn't quite up to the 4x recording speed we use -- some
players refused to accept them. But all our recent copies are made on Dysan
blanks and we've had no complaints. Of course if you should encounter any
difficulty we'll replace your discs, or refund your money if you wish.
>
>also can anyone out there tell me how you can order
>the"beautiful stranger/mythical america" cd from
>magpie? their site is not very informative re either
>ordering procedures via credit card or overseas air
>mail rates.
>
It's probably best to phone them with a credit card order -- they seem to
be quite efficient in that department -- a number of our North American
members have ordered that way with total satisfaction.
>
>couple of queries you may be able to help me with:
>firstly, how many copies of each album did pete sell
>first time around? 
>
See our Web archive, 
http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm
messages MV380 and MV571 -- oops! -- haven't published that one yet, so I'll
quote the relevant bit:

|Pete eventually found the real, rather than recollected, 
|sales figures for his albums, and notes his memory was 
|at fault:
|
|"AKAN, BOTBS and ROS sold closely similar amounts at the 
|top of the list, but in that order (that's combined 
|Fontana and RCA sales for BOTBS).  Then comes SD, then 
|LL, then DTMA (likewise combined)."

>
>secondly, are there any chances
>of the stuff that pete recorded for the john peel show
>every getting reissued.
>
Seems unlikely. The Beeb should still have the later sessions, but have
probably wiped the earliest ones. However their policy of making sessions
available for CD issue seems to be based on big-name artists, as for
example with the latest Yes release "Something's Coming -- The BBC
Recordings 1969-1970". Though we do have good quality recordings of many of
Pete's sessions in personal archives  within the group.

Cheers -- Steve

==============================================================================
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV727: All my limbs aren't sound
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:56:18 -0500

Steve, I've sent you chords for "For instance".  I wouldn't
normally send a parallel message like this but recent mails
have gone into the bit-bucket.  It seems to have something
to do with Internet vs. UUCP addresses at this end.  Anyway
if you don't see it let me know.  I always know if an MV mail
gets through because I get the message back from the list.

Having jammed my left fingers in Karate class I'm not doing
too well playing guitar right now, so my threat to send in
other chordings may be an empty one.  To all who have
done so before, my heartfelt thanks.  Nothing makes you
appreciate someones music as much as actually playing it.
Piano transcriptions, anyone?

Little aside: Stephane Grappelli, after a hot night with the
band, was next day asked to read a piece which, unknown to
him, was the previous night's solo, transcribed by one of the band.
His reaction ? "C'est trop difficile !"

Dave Jones
Getting rhythm in Rochester NY.

==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:47:39 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV728 Re: MV727: All my limbs aren't sound

Hi Dave,

No, haven't had your "For Instance" transcription. Your last mail direct to
me was "It's here!" on the 23rd, which I apologize for not yet having
replied to. Perhaps I'll do it here ...

Curiously, I note that that message is addressed simply to "'Steve
Birkill'" <email address>, while your recent MV posts seem to go via
Valhalla! Please try again to send me your "For Instance". If Valhalla
doesn't seem to like the RWT mailbox, you could try my Pipex one,
<email address>.

Sorry to hear about the bad fingers. Hope they're barre-ing again soon.

My initial response re the Local Access cable channel was something like
'hey, wouldn't it be great to start a cult following, rippling across the
States from a suburb of Rochester, NY'. But I think again we'd be up
against copyright problems -- they wouldn't want to screen anything that
appeared to be a bootleg, yet our charity/closed user group (fan club?)
status I feel would look rather weak if anyone were to challenge it with a
copyright suit. I'll see what Pete thinks and let you know, but I suspect
we'll end up playing safe.

The bloke at the end of the video was Bill (Sir William) Blackburne, who
looks after the church restoration thingie here in Monyash.

All the Best -- Steve

==============================================================================
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:38:15 +0000
From: john <email address>
Organization: Professional Legal Studies, University of Bristol
Subject: MV729: Live Libel: Why?

The video and CD set are wonderful. Steve, just what I'd hoped for.

Could someone on the list dig out their Live Libel and listen to "Why?"
for me, please - I did, this afternoon, and I'm more than ever convinced
that it isn't PA singing, which only leaves one contender. The other tracks
show how much PA can bend his voice, but I don't think he's that good a
mimic.

John - possibly being very silly.

==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:25:56 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV730 Re: MV729: Live Libel: Why?

John

Not at all silly! All is revealed in the (new today!) Live Libel session notes:
http://www.rwt.co.uk/sessionf.htm

-- Steve

==============================================================================
From: IChippett <email address>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:23:52 EST
Subject: MV731 Re : MV729: Live Libel: Why?

I always thought it was Pete doing a superb imitation of Clive James imitating
Telly S. Now I think Pete sat this one out. But was it CJ's début on record?

Ian C

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Web Digest week 26 (22.02.98, MV718 - 731) ends   | index | prev | next |

The discussion forum for fans of Pete Atkin and Clive James,
their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.
Midnight Voices