Midnight Voices 
The discussion forum for fans of Pete Atkin and Clive James,
their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.
Pete Atkin Home | Discography | Julie Covington
| Audio Clips | Visitors' Comments | Join Midnight Voices
Web Digest week 25 (15.02.98, MV704 - 717) begins | index | prev | next |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV704: Canoe
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:51:59 -0500
I was mulling over the words to "Canoe" - one of the most
haunting songs I've ever heard, for the record - when I realized
that there are almost no rhymes in the entire song. Well, this
is most unusual for Clive ! The only structure - apart from the
rhythm of the words - is the series of declamations in the middle
line of each verse, with the first verse having the same declamation
as the last, the second verse same as the second last.
It occurred to me that Clive might have been using one of the
verse structures that don't rhyme. An example is the 'sestina'
where you have six six-line stanzas, each line ending in one
of six prescribed words, the order of the words changing in
each stanza.
I searched around, but the sestina seems to be the only
scheme documented around the Web. There are hints that
other forms exist but have fallen out of use. Does anybody
have an idea about this ? Is there a form that "Canoe" was
written to?
Dave Jones
Rochester NY.
==============================================================================
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV705: Apparition in Derbyshire
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:17:28 -0500
Well folks, the Monyash CD's arrived the day before yesterday.
First impression was surprise. It didn't sound like a live
recording.
Second impression was admiration. This is a first class recording
of a great show. Pete, verbal fluffs aside, was rock solid
on guitar and keyboards, especially the latter. He used just
enough extra colour from the electronic gizmo to enhance the
experience beyond what he used to get from a grand. His voice
is as good as ever.
Third impression was like being hit by a diesel. The emotional
content here had an effect on me that was slow but cumulative.
Sure, I listened for the popular stuff first. Then I started playing
"Thirty Year Man" a few times to listen to the word changes.
Somewhere in there the piano work started getting under my skin
and next time through "The Hypertension Kid" I picked up on the
piano and got a bad case of "can't get it out of my head". Piece
after piece sucked me in like quicksand.
Pete and Clive have a way of carving familiar materials into new
shapes, and it gets you in ways you don't immediately realize.
This comes through in live performance better than in the studio.
All those subtle touches of emotional colour get lost in doing
take after take (or worrying about your session time running
out ! ).
Oh, and just for good measure, Julie's performance of "The Magic
Wasn't There" sounded like it was a headliner from a West End
show. That it wasn't only adds depth to the near-tragedy of
all this material languishing in obscurity.
What I'm saying is that we have a jewel here. Steve has
crafted a live recording that can stand against any other
in your collection. Pete and Julie produced performances
that you will want to listen to over and over again.
Steve tells me that half of the Voices haven't yet partaken
of the CD's. They are missing a golden opportunity.
This is the Pete you saw in concert back in the 70's.
Maybe he's even better here - more depth of feeling,
a subtler touch on the keys.
I want to see this recording sell more. I think Pete or Clive could
bankroll a pressing and sell it, if only backstage at gigs. I would
cheerfully buy pressed copies (no slight to Steve implied, I just
wonder about the longevity of CD-R).
So, all you still silent Voices, put in that order. Do it for yourselves,
so you do not make this a train you miss. Do it for Pete, for Julie,
for Steve, for Reverend Timms or whatever his name is. Do it so
we can all keep this flame alive.
Dave Jones
Waiting for the video in Rochester NY.
==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:46:04 +1300
From: Ramsey Margolis <email address>
Subject: MV706: magpiedirect
Does anyone have an email address for magpiedirect?
I tried to sign on to buy the PA CD but failed, and my attempts to look
at their chart crashed Netscape every time. Their web site seems to be
crashing my browser when its requests to set cookies are refused.
--
Ramsey
_______________________________________________________
| |
| R A M S E Y M A R G O L I S |
| computer technician school of art & design |
_ | auckland institute of technology | _
/ )| private bag 92006 auckland new zealand |( \
/ / | phone <phone number> fax <fax number> | \ \
_( (_ | email <email address> | _) )_
(((\ \>|_/->_______________________________________________<-\_|</ /)))
(\\\\ \_/ / \ \_/ ////)
\ / \ /
\ _/ \_ /
/ / \ \
/___/ \___\
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:51:17 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV707 Re: MV706: magpiedirect
Hi Ramsey,
Magpie's e-mail address is on our Website: magpie@dial.pipex.com
Regards
Steve
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:12:17 +0000
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV708 Re: MV705: Apparition in Derbyshire
At 17:41 16/02/98 +0000, you wrote:
>What I'm saying is that we have a jewel here. Steve has
>crafted a live recording that can stand against any other
>in your collection. Pete and Julie produced performances
>that you will want to listen to over and over again.
>
>Steve tells me that half of the Voices haven't yet partaken
>of the CD's. They are missing a golden opportunity.
>This is the Pete you saw in concert back in the 70's.
>Maybe he's even better here - more depth of feeling,
>a subtler touch on the keys.
>
>I want to see this recording sell more. I think Pete or Clive could
>bankroll a pressing and sell it, if only backstage at gigs. I would
>cheerfully buy pressed copies (no slight to Steve implied, I just
>wonder about the longevity of CD-R).
>
>So, all you still silent Voices, put in that order. Do it for yourselves,
>so you do not make this a train you miss. Do it for Pete, for Julie,
>for Steve, for Reverend Timms or whatever his name is. Do it so
>we can all keep this flame alive.
Can I add my Voice to Dave's, and to thank him for expressing so eloquently
the sheer quality of the Monyash set and of its recording. I received my
copies a while back and was playing them again over the weekend. These are
songs that if popularised would have become standards.
A request for Julie's next appearance - can she please sing Winter Kept Us
Warm? Like The Magic Wasn't There and The Standards of Today it oozes class
and is perfectly suited to her voice.
And finally ... many belated thanks to Alexis for pointing me in the
direction of Cool Edit, with which I am now able to listen to PA straight
off my hard drive as I launch Windows.
Leslie
==============================================================================
From: IChippett<email address>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:43:56 EST
Subject: MV709: Canoe
Can't help about the rhyme scheme, I'm afraid, but it is certainly rare in
CJ's opus.In fact, I can't think of another example.
On the subject of this superb song, does anyone know why exactly the lucky
three were going to change their shells for feathers? I suppose it must relate
to some ancient South Pacific custom but I've no idea of the source. Steve,
you must know.
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:26:16 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV710: Monyash CDs and videos info -- again
My multi-topic message "MV689 Re: Various", Feb 7th, must have passed by
some of our number (total now 122) unnoticed. Fifth of the seven topics in
there updated readers on availability and ordering of these recordings, but
it doesn't seem to have slowed the flow of direct e-mails querying
availability and ordering details.
So I hope those who've already heard quite enough of this will forgive me
going through it again! You will understand that the exclusive nature of
these recordings means we cannot promote them commercially on the Website,
so here's the info. I'll try to make this the final mention of all this!
Incidentally, if anyone missed MV689 or any other message not yet in the
Web digest archive, just let me know and I'll send it out to them again.
Meantime I quote from MV689, which still holds except that video reserves
have since fallen to 7 PAL, 4 NTSC:
Re MV455: Monyash Festival recordings now available
I'm still getting 2 or 3 queries per week from MV members who have joined
since we announced the availability of Festival recordings, or for some
other reason haven't yet ordered, so I guess I should summarise and update
everyone here.
The recordings are still available. We are making the CDs ahead of order so
they're always in stock -- we haven't yet set a cutoff date or quantity.
The videos are running low, with 10 PAL and 5 NTSC (North American system)
copies remaining.
The 2-CD set costs £16.99
The video (VHS videocassette in PAL or NTSC) costs £12.99
Quoted prices include packing and inland first class post, EC air mail or
rest-of-the-world surface mail. There is no VAT to pay. For Air Mail
delivery outside the European community please add £1.50 per consignment.
Orders should be sent by post to <postal address>.
Cheques should be made payable to "Monyash Festival". Foreign currency
checks cannot be accepted. If you haven't a UK bank account you should
either (i) get your bank to issue a foreign draft (Sterling draft), which
is effectively a check drawn by them on a UK bank, for the appropriate
amount, and send that to us, or (ii) take advantage of Midnight Voice
Richard Ross's generous offer to handle overseas (outside the EC only)
credit card orders for us. He writes "If people (overseas *only* please)
want to phone, fax or email their credit card (Visa/Mastercard only) info,
together with cardholder's name and billing address to me, I'll clear the
funds and pass them on to Monyash Festival.
Phone (office hours) <phone number>
Fax <fax number>
e-mail: <email address>"
A track listing of the CDs can be found on our Website at:
http://www.rwt.co.uk/padiscog.htm#monyash
-- click on the cover image for a high-res view. And if you've got some
kind of photo-quality printer you might like to download gifs of the two
cover photos at:
http://www.dragonfire.net/~sbirkill/cd1frpic.gif
http://www.dragonfire.net/~sbirkill/cd2frpic.gif
These recordings are available as a souvenir only to Midnight Voices
members or patrons of the Monyash Festival. All proceeds from the sales go
to the Monyash Church Restoration Fund.
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:45:12 +0100
From: David Griffin <email address>
Subject: MV711 Re: MV708; MV705: Apparition in Derbyshire
I would also like to say that I am very pleased with the Monyash CD. Better
quality than most "bootlegs" that I have heard. Perhaps the only drawback is
that the quality is sufficiently good for some people to question the need for
buying any of Pete Atkins other CDs!
David
==============================================================================
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV712 RE: MV709: Canoe
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:35:00 -0500
I doubt if Clive had anything specific in mind, other than just
summoning up an exotic image. That being said, it's true that
the Hawaiian islanders, for instance, made ceremonial capes
etc. using feathers, so you can imagine there being some
kind of trade posibilities. Hawaii is also quite a distance
from the other Pacific islands, so the image of three men
undertaking a crossing of great distance and danger would
fit.
But I don't dwell on that too much. I love the song for its
images. It's almost like haiku in its effort to create
a visual image and a mood at the same time.
Dave Jones
-----Original Message-----
From: IChippett<email address>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:43:56 EST
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: Canoe
On the subject of this superb song, does anyone know why exactly the lucky
three were going to change their shells for feathers? I suppose it must relate
to some ancient South Pacific custom but I've no idea of the source. Steve,
you must know.
-----------------------------
==============================================================================
From: IChippett<email address>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:44:34 EST
Subject: MV713 Re : MV712; MV709: Canoe
Isn't it beautiful how this song drifts downwards musically at the end just as
the Apollo mission did? Which leads me to wonder how Pete would have done the
song on record. (The Monyash C.D. is enough to be going on with but when
you're ready, Pete...)
What I find moving about this song is that the three men, whether in the canoe
or in the capsule, were engaged in something of great importance to them yet,
in the end, they find themselves faced with something even more urgent than
finding the feathers or landing on the Moon.
==============================================================================
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:35:30 +0000
From: Christine Guilfoyle <email address>
Subject: MV714: Canoe
'Canoe' has long been one of my favourite Atkin/James songs, and it's
marvellous to have a recording of it at last, via Steve's excellent
efforts. I think it's one of Clive James's lyrics that comes closest to
poetry (and I fully agree with Pete that poetry and song lyrics are two
entirely different disciplines - just try reading some of the lyrics out
loud, if you don't agree). I don't think the structure of 'Canoe' is
based on any standard verse-form (but I'm sure someone will correct me
if I'm wrong), but the lack of a rhyme-scheme seems to me to be perfect
for the subject-matter. The absence of rhyme means that the direction of
the song is completely unpredictable - we can't guess the ending until
it's happened, reflecting the appalling tension of the Apollo 13 mission
(this brought to mind Christopher Ricks' critique of Bob Dylan's 'Boots
of Spanish Leather', where he points out that virtually the only
predictable rhyme in the song is 'sorrow/tomorrow', echoing the song's
theme of unfulfilled expectations).
Pretentious, moi? Anyway, 'Canoe' is a lovely song - especially, the
wonderful image in the last verse - 'rocking like a cradle' - which
seems to me the perfect resolution...
Incidentally, why (of all the possible titles) did they call it just
'Canoe'?
--
Mike Walters
==============================================================================
From: IChippett<email address>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:24:33 EST
Subject: MV715 Re : MV714: Canoe
Well, they couldn't call it "Three Men in a boat!"
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:08:47 -0800
From: m.powell<email address>
Subject: MV716 Re: MV714: Canoe
I think it's one of Clive James's lyrics that comes closest to
> poetry (and I fully agree with Pete that poetry and song lyrics are two
> entirely different disciplines - just try reading some of the lyrics out
> loud, if you don't agree).
I shouldn't have made those facetious remartks about poems all those
months ago! The differences between poems and lyrics are obviously
great. The point I was trying to make is that none of it would have
worked without the music - if they had simply been written down and
published I am sure that they would not have attracted much interest.
Which is also why it is intriguing to find out how the songs were
constructed - did the lyric or the music come first, or was it some kind
of overlapping process.
Is it too late to suggest that having a show on a Sunday night in Buxton
is a mistake? Too many people will have unavoidable work commitments on
the Monday morning (e.g. anybody who teaches). What level of interest
has been recorded so far?
Mike Powell
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:37:57 +0000
From: Christine Guilfoyle <email address>
Subject: MV717 Re: MV715; MV714: Canoe
In message <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>From: IChippett<email address>
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:24:33 EST
>To: midnight.voices<email address>
>Subject: Re : MV714: Canoe
>
>Well, they couldn't call it "Three Men in a boat!"
>
That's true. My old mate Andy has also suggested that, contrary to all
my high-flown suggestions, maybe the song doesn't rhyme because Clive
couldn't think of anything to rhyme with 'canoe'...
--
Mike Walters (on Christine's computer, in case you're confused by my dual
identity)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web Digest week 25 (15.02.98, MV704 - 717) ends | index | prev | next |
Pete Atkin Home | Discography | Julie Covington
| Audio Clips | Visitors' Comments | Join Midnight Voices
The discussion forum for fans of Pete Atkin and Clive James,
their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.
Midnight Voices
Midnight Voices, the Pete Atkin and Julie Covington Websites are operated and maintained by Steve Birkill