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Web Digest week 45 (05.07.98, MV1235-1254) begins | index | prev | next | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "andy and lynn" <email address> Subject: MV1235 Re: MV1234; MV1232; MV1229; MV1228: ...as he rolled into the flame. Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 01:24:31 +0100 I think the notion of 'taking risks' is fairly relative here. We are talking about variations, after almost thirty years, in rhythm, phrasing and feel in songs that were radical mainly in their use of traditional songwriting structures and techniques. This hardly compares with bungee jumping. Personally, I'm all for Pete playing around with the songs. THey are his after all. Its the notion of the retrospective repair job that I dislike. For example, I don't think that many of the 'hard rock' songs work well on record. This is largely due, I suspect, to the use of session men and to the fact that Pete is hardly Joe Cocker. It would be possible to rerecord the songs using Aerosmith and it might be closer to the sound Pete originally envisaged. It wouldn't, however, be the same and, by the most important criteria, it wouldn't be as good. By the way, what are the words to the end of Rainwheels? ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:42:35 +0800 From: John Fuery <email address> Subject: MV1236: "P.Atkins" Dear Voices, A while ago, I promised to send copies of BOTBS/DTMA to Marshall Hughes who presents the F*** show on the radio here in hk, as well as to the organisers of the F*** festival which takes place here each November. Have now done both, and have a reply from Marshall Hughes (attached), who while obviously not having read the copious SFM sleevenotes and e-mail addresses provided, seems to think that PA is some relation of Chet Atkins. Anyway, as you can see from his e-mail, he has promised to air some of PA's stuff on return from his two month (two bloody months!) holiday. Am still waiting to hear from the HK F*** festival people, but have provided them with Steve's e-mail address in case they are interested in giving audiences here a taste of the most under-rated talent in contemporary music. Yours from recession smitten Asia John Fuery Dear John, Thank you for your letter, cassette and information on Pete Atkins. I am just about to leave HK for two months and my next 8 editions of "Folk Roots" are pre-recorded for my absence. However, on my return you can be assured that I will play some of the material and give it a bit of publicity. Thankyou for you rinterest in the show. Reagards, Marshall Hughes ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:04:01 +0100 From: S J Birkill <email address> Subject: MV1237 Re MV (various) In reverse chronological order ... Re MV1235, Andy: The words under the fade I hear as: Her Firestones go trailing spray They spin, they grip, they whip away Through trembling reflections of the lights of intersections And the brightly flourished crayon of the neon ... see http://www.rwt.co.uk/e1.htm Re MV1209, Ian: "automatically flipped through the "A" rack just in case" - feels familiar ... Re MV1207, Leslie: Yes, I collect whatever I can archive-wise. I have my own fairly good recordings of most (but not all) of the Peel sessions, and am always looking to fill the gaps, and add any concert recordings or interviews (and especially any old video. Somewhere, in some dusty attic -- do people still have those? -- there could be an old reel-to-reel home video of the Averham revue (BBC-2) or WAYDATS). I can handle pretty well any tape format, and have the ability to extract passable audio from most of the crud, and process it digitally. Mostly I archive to DAT or CD-R, and supply a CD-R copy to the owner of the archive tape, along with his or her original, usually by overnight parcel service for security. I far prefer to work from original tapes rather than dubs, and treat all originals as priceless. (Here I must apologise to MV Graham Stibbs, whose tape of Pete on "Digance does it ... locally" I still have. Having dubbed Pete I intended to make a copy also of the Fairport material, but must have got sidetracked. A momentary lapse? I'll get it sent off to you today, Graham, and thanks for being so patient). The radio and interview archive should be, of course, free to all on a samizdat basis -- it's just that I haven't (yet) figured out exactly how to make everything available. If I listed all the old recordings here I fear I'd be overwhelmed with requests for CD-Rs. But I might be wrong -- the Monyash CD was a manageable run (still some left!) despite its specialness. I'm concerned also that it doesn't look to outsiders like a bootleg factory! (Note that CD-R is less expensive to duplicate, in both time -- after the initial mastering -- and material cost, than cassette, at least for one-offs). Re MV1205, Cary: No, I've not had any figures for the SFM sales. I think the last Pete heard was that it was "going well". The Monyash label script I hadn't announced as being Pete's work, merely hoped it would be recognised, from MVs' autographed albums, or the 'A First Folio' images on the website, perhaps. Re: New new members: Welcome to Lesley Hodges, F T M Willson, Clare, Chris Evans and Paul McLellan. Re Web Sites: Cary advises us her Rock Follies scrapbook (Julie Covington content) is now on line under the home page at http://members.xoom.com/Follies/home.html Best Wishes to all -- Steve ============================================================================== From: Neil Norman <email address> Subject: MV1238: New versions Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:21:03 +0100 As my contribution to the "New version/interpretations debate may I pass on the following. There is current trend for "modern" artists to sample old riffs or rhythm tracks for their "new" recording. This is taken further where the artist records a version of the track, usually with a piece of rap inserted somewhere (that's rap with a capital "C"), maybe even keeping the original vocal. (Note the current hit version of "Kung Fu Fighting".) Surely we have an opening here. Find a rapper to re-record a PA classic, preferably retaining some PA vocals, but at the very least sampling something from the original. A number one hit is obviously inevitable and the royalties will flow in, and the public at large will get to hear the Atkin name (even if they are only the pre-teen public!) The only question remaining is what songs to sample or give the Rap treatment to? I'm sure the Voices can provide that answer Neil Norman ---------- ============================================================================== From: Dave Fisher <email address> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:51:21 GMT Subject: MV1239: Cover Magazine The July issue of Cover magazine has a free 12 track CD of various jazz artists who record for or have been re-released through the Impulse label. These include Diana Krall (recently recommended by another MV) singing 'They can't take that away from me' from her latest album 'Love Scenes'. Other well known acts such as Art Blakey; Horace Silver; Sonny Rollins and Count Basie (with a track from the album 'Count Basie and the Kansas City 7' finding the groove with' Secrets'). As a fairly recent and initially reluctant listener to jazz many of the tracks by others I had not heard of have contained some delightful discoveries. The magazine has some excellent previously published articles. The lenghthy analysis of Frank Sinatras career by John Lahr originally from the New Yorker is worth a read even if you are not a fan. It took me nearly the whole of a fairly long train journey to get through all the articles and at £2.50 good value. I do not have any stake in it!! I just thought some might be interested. Dave Fisher ============================================================================== From: Neil Norman <email address> Subject: MV1240: To Steve for info Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:29:38 +0100 Steve, You probably know this and did it intentionally, but the last two MVs I received had only this footer, rather than your comprehensive listing of "Smash Flops" etc. Regards Neil Norman ============================================================================== The Pete Atkin e-mail Discussion Group Midnight Voices <midnight.voicesPete Atkin Home | Discography | Julie Covington | Audio Clips | Visitors' Comments | Join Midnight Voices> ============================================================================== Instant reply from Steve: yes, thanks Neil, it was intentional. I sometimes wonder if our members get a little tired of all the clutter that surrounds the 'meat' of our messages, so I try at times to cut it down. Also the "MV-mobile" I use away from base wraps the lines much earlier on its tiny screen (even more than the 70-character wrap your Microsoft prog has applied, above -- wrapping [no, not rapping] is a minefield in e-mail, especially with so many now using proportional font in Microsoft or Netscape products), so I use a shorter footer when I'm away from base. I've not asked for comments, as I'm sure everyone has preferences of their (aargh!) own. Anyhow, here comes the full thingie to illuminate your message, along with the header rule I don't always remember to include -- Steve ============================================================================== | Midnight Voices -- The Pete Atkin e-mail Discussion Group |78 char wrap| | A closed group for free discourse on all topics related to |Set window | | Pete Atkin, his chums and the songs of Pete and Clive James. |width here -> | Moderator Steve Birkill, admin requests pse to <email addr> |and use font| | Please address all posts to < e m a i l a d d r e s s > |Courier New | | Related Web site "Smash Flops" http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm |to see msgs | | MV message Web archive at http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm |as intended.| ============================================================================== ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:59:53 -0700 From: Paul McLellan <email address> Subject: MV1241 I first encountered Pete's music in my first year at Cambridge. I see from the gig list that this would have been the evening of October 31st 1972 when he opened for Lou Reed (an unusual pairing, one has to admit). This was just after a King at Nightfall had come out, I think. I bought it but the earlier recordings were in the unavailable period. I saw Pete several times during my years at Cambridge. Once, at Clare folk club a friend of mine who was doing the sound asked Pete if he could record the show off the sound board. I used to have a cassette of this but it has got lost in my many moves, unfortunately. -- paul ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:53:51 +0100 From: Graham Stibbs <email address> Subject: MV1242 Re: MV1237 >(Here I must apologise to MV Graham Stibbs, whose tape of Pete on "Digance >does it ... locally" I still have. Having dubbed Pete I intended to make a >copy also of the Fairport material, but must have got sidetracked. A >momentary lapse? I'll get it sent off to you today, Graham, and thanks for >being so patient). No problem and no hurry Steve. I'm up to eyeball level with work then it's house hunting, preferably for something with a large attic... Graham Stibbs Quickie from Steve: You'll have it tomorrow, Graham. Thanks again! -- S ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:38:51 +0100 From: Christine Guilfoyle <email address> Subject: MV1243 Re: MV1233; MV1232; MV1229; MV1228: ...as he rolled into the flame. >Isn't the point of this discussion forum to discuss? And surely dislike of >one note, or line or even track doesn't condemn the whole lot. One persons >'flaw' is anothers stroke of brilliance.With listening some of those bits >that grated to start with become part of the tapestry that the songs weave >for us.Can't we talk about that? Sorry - I was only joking. Though, to be (semi) serious, I do have a bit of a concern about us picking apart the minor flaws in 25 year old recordings. It's a bit like those infamous bits in Beatles or Dylan records where they get the words wrong or come in at the wrong point or whatever. The trouble is, as soon as someone's pointed it out to you, that's all you can hear. I don't want that to happen to any of my long- treasured PA albums. In any case, I think that's rather a different issue from how Pete (or, for that matter, any of us as listeners/performers) might choose to reinterpret the songs, which is clearly a legitimate matter for discussion. Pete's performances of 'Biro', 'Hypertension Kid' et al at Monyash were powerful examples of revisiting the songs to bring out something new (and personally I've always found Pete's solo performances of the songs to be a revelation - sometimes the album arrangements almost obscure the strength of his melodies). Although, I must say that, for me, one of the interesting things about the songs is how difficult it generally is to imagine them being done differently from the original versions - and, of course, we do have the great Joe Stead as an awful warning of the dangers of 'reinterpretation'... -- Mike Walters ============================================================================== From: Cary <email address> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:33:28 +0000 Subject: MV1244 Re: MV1240: To Steve for info Mike wrote, >The trouble is, as soon as someone's pointed it >out to you, that's all you can hear. Point taken. I used to have a big problem with records that jumped - I could never sing the songs ( to myself I might add) without singing the jump. Re. Footers (oh no - did I mention the world cup?) My mail program always includes the format instructions aswell on the footer so it reads something like, " The Pete Atkin e-mail Discussion Group |78 char wrap|| A closed group for free discourse on all topics related to |Set window | | Pete Atkin, his chums and the songs of Pete and Clive James. |width here -> | Moderator Steve Birkill, admin requests pse to <email address> |and use font| | Please address all posts to <email address> |Courier New | | Related Web site "Smash Flops" http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm |to see msgs | | MV message Web archive at http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm |as intended.|" I've been trying to work out what the topics related to "Set window" are - Ballad of an Upstairs one maybe? And when are you going to disclose Clive's width? Ah well, it is the same programme that was sending people squashed cats.You may well ask why I stick to that programme .... no, don't please, it'll only confuse me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ROCK FOLLIES - The Classic 1970's TV Drama starring Julie Covington, Charlotte Cornwell and Rula Lenska. Online at:- http://members.xoom.com/Follies Pictures,sounds and much more (unofficial site) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat) ========================================== Here's another of Steve's instant replies: Sorry you couldn't see the footer as intended, Cary. Wrap and window width are things you have control of in most mail programs, though I won't (you'll be pleased to hear) try to go into details here. Sufficient to say that with the correct settings, and a fixed width (traditional e-mail) font, you would have the MV details at the left and centre of the footer reading: =============================================================== | Midnight Voices -- The Pete Atkin e-mail Discussion Group | | A closed group for free discourse on all topics related to | | Pete Atkin, his chums and the songs of Pete and Clive James.| | Moderator Steve Birkill, admin requests pse to <email addr> | | Please address all posts to midnight.voices<email address> | | Related Web site "Smash Flops" http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm | | MV message Web archive at http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm | =============================================================== and to the right of it a vertical panel with the (I hope) not too obscure message: ============== |78 char wrap| |Set window | |width here -> |and use font| |Courier New | |to see msgs | |as intended.| ============== which should look like a box with text in it, if your display is set not to "unwrap" the text. The "|" characters at the end of each line should be in vertical alignment, which they probably aren't be in the world in which your cat looks healthy, because of the non-constant character width of your font. One or two of our members have graphic sigs built out of ascii characters, which must look equally confusing in a proportional font. But not at all important to the content of our messages. Hope this explains the mystery, in part at least -- Steve ============================================================================== From: "andy and lynn" <email address> Subject: MV1245 Re: MV1237 Re MV (various) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 00:49:03 +0100 Steve, Thanks for the words to Rainwheels. Problem is, I've always been fascinated by what comes <i>after</i> the fade. It reminds me of the guitar solo at the end of (I don't want to go to) Chelsea...(question, are this and 'chelsea morning' the only songs not to mention Everton?)... wich also leaves a great deal to the imagination. Anyway, did someone really say 'contemporary'? Andy ============================================================================== From: Dave Fisher <email address> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:32:19 GMT Subject: MV1246: Censorship Can anyone help out there? A friend of mine is researching into standards currently acceptable in public broadcasting and how they have changed over the years. I was talking to her about a BBC radio programme called (I think) 'Listen to the Banned' broadcast some time ago. The presenter played some records that had been banned up until quite recently. Two that spring to mind were 'The Vatican Rag' by the wonderful Tom Lehrer and another by an Andrews Sisters soundalike supposedly about a broken electric toaster entitled 'My pop-up won't pop-up anymore'. I will draw a veil over this. I also thought I heard a section on product placement and its unacceptability to the BBC. This is where the memory I believe is playing its usual tricks. It was here (I have convinced myself) that I heard that two of PA's tracks had been banned. One was 'Have you got a Biro I can borrow' a fairly straightforward case as it used a brand name. The other was more obscure and strange 'Wristwatch for a drummer' the watch in question as you know being an amalgam of the names of many fine timepieces. Am I totally mistaken? If not would anyone like to clarify or amend my somewhat vague recollections. Anyone have a tape of the programme? Many thanks Dave Fisher ============================================================================== From: Dave Jones <email address> Subject: MV1247 RE: MV1246: Censorship Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:52:15 -0400 >One was 'Have you got a Biro I can borrow' a fairly straightforward >case as it used a brand name. The other was more obscure and strange >'Wristwatch for a drummer' the watch in question as you know being >an amalgam of the names of many fine timepieces. Pete himself has already related how he was warned that 'Biro' was a brand name, but that it was OK as long as the capital 'B' was retained, so he is always careful to sing 'Biro' instead of 'biro'. I myself have propagated the story that 'Wristwatch' was banned, claiming as my source Pete's concert patter back in the days of yore. In fact I seem to remember Pete saying that a lot of their stuff was banned, not for smut but for brand names. At the time Desiree Carthorse and her National Voyeurs and Lechers Association were all over the BBC for smutty programming, but the most visible result of their efforts was the ridiculous pretend-its-not-there treatment of Chuck Berry's No. 1 hit, "My Ding-a-Ling". I think the subtext of Pete's remarks was that it would be nice to get banned for smut because at least your sales would increase. Dave J. In a plain brown wrapper in Rochester NY. ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:13:52 +0100 From: Graham Stibbs <email address> Subject: MV1248 Re: MV1246: Censorship Dave Fisher wrote: > I heard that two of PA's tracks had been banned. > One was 'Have you got a Biro I can borrow' a fairly straightforward > case as it used a brand name. The other was more obscure and strange > 'Wristwatch for a drummer' the watch in question as you know being > an amalgam of the names of many fine timepieces. > > Am I totally mistaken? > If not would anyone like to clarify or amend my somewhat vague > recollections. > Anyone have a tape of the programme? Memory can play tricks, but I do clearly recall listening to (possibly even recording , but the tape is nowhere to be found) this programme and I'm sure I would've remembered any PA/CJ references. Mind you, now we know why Pete's single 'Carnation's on the Roof' got no airplay on the Beeb - all that advertising condensed milk... Graham Stibbs ============================================================================== From: Dave Jones <email address> Subject: MV1249 RE: MV1216; MV1215: Covers and middle eights Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:20:39 -0400 >From: Dave Fisher <email address> >> >> And on covers: these days the person I'd perhaps most like to hear do some >> of our stuff is Diana Krall. Check out her All For You CD if you get a >> chance. If her versions of I'm Through With Love or If I Had You don't have >> at least the heterosexual males among you quivering with, well, emotion, >> then I think it's time for me to re-examine my sensibilities. >> > >Have to agree. >The cover picture of her seated at the piano does >nothing to dispel these thoughts either. > >Must go and have a lie down. > >Dave Fisher Hmm, I bought the latest, "Love Scenes" and thought it a bit run-of-the-mill. Then I managed to find "All for You" and found it to be a much better effort. Funnily enough, "Love Scenes" now sounds better as well. As is my wont, I plugged her name into the Web and came up with plenty of stuff. Her tour schedule is available via the MCA web site. Online reviews ranged from raves to "forget her, listen to Shirley Horn". I can understand how some would think that way, but it's early days yet. She could develop into quite an artist, if the hype doesn't get to her first. Here are a couple of tour dates that MV's might be interested in: (date format US: month/day/year) 7/11/98 Hague, Holland 7/13/98 Nice, France 7/16/98 Montauban, France 7/17/98 Wigan (!!!!), England Mill at t'Pier 7/31/98 Edinburgh, Scotland Queens Hall 8/1 - 8/2/98 Dublin, Ireland Temple Bar 8/4/98 Crest, France 11/12/98 London, England Barbican (tentative) Dave Jones Tinkling away in Rochester NY. ============================================================================== From: Dave Fisher <email address> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:25:54 GMT Subject: MV1250 Re: MV1247; MV1246: Censorship Thanks Graham & Dave I must have been totally confused (not an infrequent occurrence these days). Too many pints of Carnation probably. I must read through the MV archive sometime. Dave Fisher ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:51:38 -0400 From: Chris Harris <email address> Subject: MV1251 Re: MV1246: Censorship Re "Listen to the banned". I remember the program -presented by someone like Barry Crier and that it included "God save the Queen , she ain't no human being -pronounced bean" by the Stanglers (maybe). But I also don't recall any reference to PA which I think I would have noted. ( I remember where I was when I heard it - in my mums front room if you must know). I recall that they had to get permission to play some of the songs as they were still officially banned by the Beeb - what year was this I wonder - over 12 years ago at least maybe more like 20 - although I guess that it could have been repeated since. Now - Pete re-interpreting "My Pop Up won't pop up any more" sounds like the sort of artistic challenge he would thrive on - could be the big break he's been waiting for . Chris ============================================================================== From: Mark Roberts <email address> Subject: MV1252 RE: MV1251; MV1246: Censorship Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:37:23 +0100 >Re "Listen to the banned". >I remember the program -presented by someone like Barry Crier and that it >included "God save the Queen , she ain't no human being -pronounced bean" >by the Stanglers (maybe). hmmm, Sex Pistols I think, Anarchy In The UK Cheers, Mark ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mondex International Limited 47-53 Cannon Street, London EC4M 5SQ England Registered No: 3122085, England Telephone No: <phone number> Web Site: http://www.mondex.com ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:18:06 -0400 From: David Gritten <email address> Subject: MV1253: moved to london Hi, Just to let you know David Gritten has finally moved back to the big city. Same e-mail address, different snail mail: <postal address> New phone number: <phone number> New fax number <fax number> One way or another, we'll be in touch! Best, David ============================================================================== From: Dave Fisher <email address> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:36:02 GMT Subject: MV1254 Re: MV1251; MV1246: Censorship Thanks Chris. My confusion knows no bounds. My only excuse is that it was a long time ago and for my inclination to place two or more disparate snippets of information into one.Storage and recall is obviously a problem in what's left of my brain. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Web Digest week 45 (05.07.98, MV1235-1254) ends | index | prev | next | The discussion forum for fans of Pete Atkin and Clive James, their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.Midnight VoicesMidnight Voices, the Pete Atkin and Julie Covington Websites are operated and maintained by Steve Birkill
