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their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.
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Web Digest week 17 (21.12.97, MV545 - 564) begins | index | prev | next |
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From: IChippett <email address>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:48:24 EST
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Subject: MV545: An MV Archive
I have kept all the messages from MV251 onwards and bitterly regret that I
have lost (through no fault of my own) their predecessors. I would be
delighted to be able to have them on record. Is it possible, Steve?
Thanks for the suggestions about Spanish goldtrails but I'm none the wiser,
I'm afraid.
Thanks too to Paul Reid for his message about "My Egoist." My copy of "A First
Folio" has been lying in a Somerset attic unread since 1978 from which time I
have had to rely on memory to reconstruct its contents. It's my lousy
memory......
For all those who have yet to order their CD. Can you imagine how much this
will be worth in 25 years' time? I hope Steve has had my order?
Joyeux Noel to Pete, Steve and all the Voices
Ian Chippett
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:26:46 -0800
From: <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Subject: MV546 Re: MV536: Our Lady Lowness
Midnight Voices wrote:
>
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:35:15 +0000
> To: Midnight Voices <email address>
> From: Leslie Moss <email address>
> Subject: Our Lady Lowness
>
> Thought inspired by hearing Chris Smith's lame defense of government policy
> on Question Time this evening.
>
> "Our Lady was methodical, Her teaching soon took hold.
> I learned to blame the cold for being cold, the poor for being prodigal
> The old for being old"
>
> Was Clive influenced by Maggie Thatcher (milk-snatcher at that time)?
>
> "A pleasure for the mind all right, but still you couldn't call her bright"
>
> Or did he foresee Harriet Harman?
>
> Leslie
If this is a Thatcher reference, I'd say it results from prescience
rather than topical comment.
TROS was recorded in September 1973, when Mrs T. was still in her very
early powder-blue suit and pussy-bow incarnation. So I think it's just
as much of a happy coincidence as Bob Dylan's Maggie's Farm.
I've always read Our Lady Lowness as a personification of a cynical and
materialistic frame of mind, and a comment on the seductiveness of
thinking that way. For me, there's also an echo of Swinburne's Dolores,
which I guess may still be a favourite with today's S&M fans:
"Could you hurt me, sweet lips, though I hurt you?
Men touch them, and change in a trice
The lilies and langours of virtue
For the roses and raptures of vice;
Those lie where thy foot on the floor is
These crown and caress thee and chain
O splendid and sterile Dolores
Our Lady of Pain."
(Sorry, no reference - this is from memory. I've always thought that
'the roses and raptures of vice' had a splendidly rakish lip-smacking
quality - though no doubt Swinburne would have been terribly
disappointed if that was as far as it went.)
'Splendid and sterile' strikes a chord with 'her pampered brilliance
shed no light'.
Like Dolores, Our Lady Lowness appears as an anti-Madonna figure:
perhaps more specifically as an inversion of the Madonna Misericordia
who, instead of sheltering and nurturing all humanity under her arms and
prompting her followers to do likewise, teaches her acolyte first to
reject the less fortunate and then to justify having done so.
Fittingly, unlike Dolores' s instant sexual seduction, hers is gradual,
intellectual and financial.
Post-dated Mrs T. references abound elsewhere however - as in Deacon
Blue's This Changing Light, Simply Red's Wonderland and Tears for Fears'
Sowing The Seeds of Love. (Yes, I do occasionally listen to someone
other than Pete!)
Mel Powell
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:44:37 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>)
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV547 Re: DTMA annotation
Hi,
Nice job on the DTMA annotation, John -
>> And Rosebud was upended in the snow
>>
>> http://www.imaginary.com/~borg/Film/Drama/CitizenKane.html
>>
>> The very wealthy newspaper mogul Charles Foster Kane (Orson Welles) dies
>> alone in a great fortress uttering the last word "Rosebud".
Just a quickie, but wasn't "Rosebud" the name of Kane's sleigh? (I
haven't seen the movie, so can't be sure). If so, it might be worth
mentioning, since it illuminates what it was doing upside down in the
snow - and would also fit in with the song's overall theme of broken
(American) dreams.
Cheers,
Jeremy
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:50:51 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Roy Brown <email address>
Subject: MV548 Re: MV547 Re: DTMA annotation
In article <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:44:37 GMT
>From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>)
>To: midnight.voices<email address>
>Subject: Re: DTMA annotation
>
>Hi,
>
>Nice job on the DTMA annotation, John -
>
>>> And Rosebud was upended in the snow
>>>
>>> http://www.imaginary.com/~borg/Film/Drama/CitizenKane.html
>>>
>>> The very wealthy newspaper mogul Charles Foster Kane (Orson Welles) dies
>>> alone in a great fortress uttering the last word "Rosebud".
>
>Just a quickie, but wasn't "Rosebud" the name of Kane's sleigh? (I
>haven't seen the movie, so can't be sure). If so, it might be worth
>mentioning, since it illuminates what it was doing upside down in the
>snow - and would also fit in with the song's overall theme of broken
>(American) dreams.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jeremy
>
Very early in the film, you see Kane as a young boy, dragged off in the
middle of sledging (I forget quite why - parental divorce?), leaving
behind forever his beloved sledge, Rosebud, upended in the snow.
It's suggested that Kane's whole life thereafter, his whole acquisitive
drive and all that went with it, stemmed from an unstoppable, but
subconscious, desire to compensate for that early, irredeemable loss.
At the very end, after Kane has died with "Rosebud" on his lips, we see
two workmen clearing up in the great fortress. One says "I wonder what
he meant by that?" The other, throwing something in the furnace, says "I
guess we'll never know". The camera tracks in for a close-up on the
burning item, just in time to see the "Rosebud" brand name on the sledge
(for that is what it is) blister and burn in the flames.
Kane was modelled on William Randolph Hearst, 1863-1951, newspaper
magnate, who married a famous silent film star, Marion Davies IIRC.
In real life, 'Rosebud' was apparently WRH's pet name for her clitoris.
A little Wellesian in-joke. Of course, you may not wish to know that...
--
Roy Brown Phone : <phone number> Fax : <fax number>
Affirm Ltd Email : <email address>
<postal address> 'Have nothing on your systems that you do not
know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.'
==============================================================================
From: <email address> (Simon Reap)
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Subject: MV549 Re: MV540: CDs
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 00:40:53 GMT
On Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:49:59 +0000, Stuart Reeves wrote:
>I have just reeived my Monyash CDs and have a familiar sounding problem.
>Disc 1 plays perfectly on my Pioneer CD player, but disc 2 won't. It will
>however play on my computer. Wierd
The combined efforts of SJB and the GPO have done us proud. Cheque
and order posted first thing last Thursday, Video and CDs shipped out
on Sunday, arrived here Monday morning - and all in the week before
Christmas!
Both my CDs play fine on Sony equipment (Midi system and computer
drive), so it looks like it is an edge problem with some players.
Thanks again to Steve and his merry band of helpers for making all of
this happen.
Merry Christams to all, and a prosperous New Year.
Simon
--
Simon Reap - <email address>
- http://www.pipemedia.net/~sar
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:48:42 -0700 (MST)
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: <email address>
Subject: MV550: Sunlight Gate Heros
I got my 12 yo daughter to listen to "Sunlight Gate" while reading the words
that I'd printed off the web site, and then asked her what image the song
conjured up. She saw knights in shining armour, whereas I've always seen
Conquistador types. I don't know if Sunlight Gate is a specific reference,
but what do other Voices see when they listen to that song?
Jeff Moss
==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:14:10
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Richard Ross <email address>
Subject: MV551 Re: MV 540 etc; CDs
A belated thank you Steve for the CDs and Video which arrived safely last
week and which I've finally found time to listen to / watch. Excellent
editing on the CDs - it sounds very good and there's plenty of atmosphere.
So many "live" recordings these days seem to sound as though they're trying
to be studio ones, with the audience edited out and the end-of-track
applause cut to a minimum. Nice one :-)
I've had no problems playing the CDs on my elderly Marantz player which
will normally hiccup at the slightest provocation, or on my JVC portable,
so perhaps the problem with disc 2 is an "intermitent" one, not affecting
all copies.
Anyway, to those who haven't ordered yet, do so - you won't be disappointed!
We were musing on this list a little while ago about updating some of the
lyrics, e.g "Ten quid from the bank" etc., and while listening to
Sessionman's Blues the other day I got to wondering what he would motor
away in now, since the Rover 3-litre is very much a car of the past. What
is today's "poor man's Rolls-Royce" ? A Lexus perhaps? :-)
Season's greetings to all,
Richard
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Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:59:53 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV552: A special year
Just wanted to wish all my fellow Voices the very best over the festive
season, and an especial thank you to Steve for making all of this possible.
I would never have believed at the beginning of the year that I would
connect with so many soulmates and that the music of Pete and Clive was so
loved by so many of us.
Looking forward to many more exchanges in 1998, not to mention Monyash again!
Leslie
==============================================================================
From: "Norman, Neil" <email address>
To: 'Midnight Voices' <email address>
Subject: MV553 RE: MV550: Sunlight Gate Heros
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:32:57 -0000
As a hobby I dabble in Amateur Drama, Plays and Musicals (yes I'm
still available for Panto this year!) and as I am waiting backstage to
go on, the idea of "The Sunlight Gate" often comes to me. Its the way
you enter from the dark of backstage and then see with the audience
through the proscenium arch while the lights hit you - to me it's a
Sunlight Gate. The people backstage who never tread the boards are
those who have "no idea how they spend their day" although of course
it might be a Shakespeare play.
Just a thought as I wait for Christmas to end (whoops, I mean start!)
Best wishes to all Voices, especially Pete, Clive and Steve
Neil Norman
----------
I got my 12 yo daughter to listen to "Sunlight Gate" while reading the words
that I'd printed off the web site, and then asked her what image the song
conjured up. She saw knights in shining armour, whereas I've always seen
Conquistador types. I don't know if Sunlight Gate is a specific reference,
but what do other Voices see when they listen to that song?
Jeff Moss
==============================================================================
From: Elphinking <email address>
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 05:38:20 EST
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV554 Re: MV550: Sunlight Gate Heros
I love this song..it always conjures up images of begrimed Crusaders, holding
back the infidels on the edge of Christian civilization...though there are
echoes of Tolkien in there for me too.
==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:02:43 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV555: Seasonal Greeting
HAPPY CHRISTMAS!
Just to wish the very best of the midwinter holiday season to all of our members,
of whatever persuasion. Thank you all for your support over these first four
months of Midnight Voices, for the generosity and creativity of your remarks and
opinions, and for your efforts in making Smash Flops and Midnight Voices better
places to loiter. May you all have a splendid 1998!
Steve Birkill
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Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:38:32 -0500
From: Frances Kemmish <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Subject: MV556 Re: MV554; MV550: Sunlight Gate Heros
Midnight Voices wrote:
>
> From: Elphinking <email address>
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 05:38:20 EST
> To: midnight.voices<email address>
> Subject: Re: MV550: Sunlight Gate Heros
>
> I love this song..it always conjures up images of begrimed Crusaders, holding
> back the infidels on the edge of Christian civilization...though there are
> echoes of Tolkien in there for me too.
>
This song conjures up images of knights in armour for me,too, in the
lines about heroes riding out, but the lines, 'in the clattering hour,
in the clattering hour...' evoke the sound of helicopters overhead. At
the time the songs were written, we were all familiar with the images of
helicopters bringing home soldiers, and casualties, from the coverage of
Vietnam in the news. Also, of course, one of the recurring images in
'M.A.S.H.', both the film, and the TV series, was of the sound of
helicopters returning in the evening.
Fran
==============================================================================
From: Neil Lovelock <email address>
To: PeteAtkinMailingList <email address>
Subject: MV557: Happy Ho-ho
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:33:00 -0500
Wishing everyone a merry Christmas and a prosperous new year.
Long live Pete!!!
Neil
==============================================================================
From: Elphinking <email address>
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:05:20 EST
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV558 Re: MV556; MV554; MV550: Sunlight Gate Heros
purely pedantic but I don't think helicopters clatter - they pulse.
==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:58:21 GMT
From: <email address> (Michael J. Cross)
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV559 Re: MV550: Sunlight Gate Heros
Hi all,
In message <email address> Midnight Voices writes:
} Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:48:42 -0700 (MST)
} Subject: Sunlight Gate Heros
}
} I got my 12 yo daughter to listen to "Sunlight Gate" while reading the words
} that I'd printed off the web site, and then asked her what image the song
} conjured up. She saw knights in shining armour, whereas I've always seen
} Conquistador types. I don't know if Sunlight Gate is a specific reference,
} but what do other Voices see when they listen to that song?
I'd always thought of knights in armour, but a more modern interpretation
seems more likely as described in earlier messages:
>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:04:11 -0400
>From: John Ramsey <email address>
>Subject: MV93: Sunlight Gate.
>
>Re. Sunlight Gate.
>
>As I understand it, the song is about WW2 daylight bomber crews, as seen
>from the perspective of a member of the ground crew. The gates in question
>aren't meant to be taken literally, I think that this is just an image of
>the crews as knights riding forth from a castle, and returning in the
>sunset. I hope this makes sense, and I'm happy to read anyone else's
>interpretation.
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:07:28 +0100
>To: Midnight Voices <email address>
>From: S J Birkill <email address>
>Subject: MV94: One Midnight Voice
>
>
>To break the silence, here are some thoughts from Pete, which he's
>
>BEGIN QUOTE ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Re: Sunlight Gate - I don't think I ever specifically discussed this with
>Clive, but I think John Ramsey is pretty much on the button, except that I
>have another dim memory from somewhere way back that the "gates" in the
>song, while I'm sure they are of course meant to conjure up an image of
>castles ("ride out" isn't a phrase you would normally apply to bomber
>crews, after all), also refer to a critical morning and evening period
>within which it was vital to depart and to return because of fuel or
>navigation considerations (sort of a window in a time-frame). In fact, I
>wouldn't be surprised (we really didn't talk about any of this stuff much
>or at all at the time) if the title phrase and the double-image it conjured
>up was where the whole idea for the song came from.
all the best,
--
Michael J. Cross BSFA Magazine Index at http://www.mjckeh.demon.co.uk
"Beware of the Beautiful Stranger/Driving Through Mythical America"
by Pete Atkin & Clive James, CD reissue 11/97 on See For Miles
For more info on all PA/CJ releases, see http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm
==============================================================================
From: "JeanRogers/RogerCornwell" <email address>
To: "Midnight Voices" <email address>
Subject: MV560: Thanks
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:44:18 -0000
First a big thanks to Steve and Carol and anyone else who put together the
CDs of the Monyash concert - their standard is superb, and far better than
I had anticipated would be possible even given the evident care that went
into the event. The video too is a wonderful record of the concert - even
if it does include yours truly as the sole member of the audience visible
in the shots taken from the camera at the left of the tent!
A different kind of thanks to whoever does the PDC encoding for Channel 5,
as my video recorder got all of the news bulletin preceeding the Mariella
Frostrup show and none of Clive James's appearance!
==============================================================================
From: <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 11:06:35 +0000
Subject: MV561: Now, That's Publicity
Vices,
Now that's publicity, Pete and Clive on Radio 2. Excellent interview,
plug for the CD, plug for the web site, plug for next years 'event',
played Master of The Reveal AND Flowers and the Wine ..... what more
could you ask for.
I had intended recording it for anyone who missed it but managed to
mess up the timer - I can access the internet, I can write a web page
( http://www.xoom.com/Follies ) , (thought I'd slip that in, Rock
Follies page with quite a few Julie Covington pics for fans) but I
can't set up a Hi Fi timer ..... back to the drawing board.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_/\ /\_
Cary a a
Like Mary @
With a 'C' for cat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(should show a cat - if not ...
picasso eat your heart out!!)
==============================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 11:42:09 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV562: Rats! (Re: MV561: Now, That's Publicity)
Well, I'll be buggered -- Missed it!
Anyone tape it? Send tape, mail .ra, to post on Website -- Anything?
Pretty please!
-- S
==============================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:02:12 -0800
From: Graeme Aldous <email address>
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV563: CD AUDIO REALITY
It's odd, isn't it -- you get to know and love an album from a ropey 3
3/4 ips pirate dub, and then you hear it a quarter of a century later
from a digital re-mastering. It's the same, only VERY different --
somewhat like hearing Mozart's Horn Concerto played on the bagpipes!
All sorts of little musical nuances that you've never heard before, that
are oddly disturbing. Still, they'll become equally familiar after a
few more playings of the new CD.
Yes, despite that, BOBTS was an old friend as we crossed the Pennines
last night, but I realise that (apart from 'Sunlight Gate') I've not
heard anything of DTMA before. A whole NEW set of tracks to
know-and-love -- Deep Joy!
And although Ian Sorensen may think me henpecked (having to wait until
after Christmas to hear the disc), it was knowing that we could look
forward to getting our kicks on the A66 on the way home was what kept us
non-smokers sane through the obligatory fug-laden family
("Are-we-having-fun-yet-watching-Neighbours?") Christmas. God must have
been in a bad mood when he invented the Festive Season!
Oh, I don't know, though -- someone gave me a Pete Atkin CD, so it
wasn't all bad.
Happy New Year, all.
--
GRAEME ALDOUS.
<postal address>
Phone & Fax: <phone number>
"And Lo, so it came to pass that on the Seventh Day,
it was turkey leftovers AGAIN!"
==============================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:19:41 +0100
From: "Tim's account" <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Subject: MV564 Re: MV534: Festival Recordings -- progress
Midnight Voices wrote:
>
> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:27:02 +0000
> To: Midnight Voices <email address>
> From: S J Birkill <email address>
> Subject: Festival Recordings -- progress
>
[full quote of MV534 snipped -- SJB]
>
Thanks. I have recieved mine.
Tim Binsted
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Web Digest week 17 (21.12.97, MV545 - 564) ends | index | prev | next |
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