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Web Digest week 50 (09.08.98, MV1329-1368) begins | index | prev | next | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Chippett <email address> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:04:55 EDT Subject: MV1329 Re : MV1328; MV1325, 1326 -- Eastbourne Reviews I'd like to thank Richard and Gerry for their really excellent reviews of the Eastbourne gig: it must have been a great evening quite apart from nostalgic considerations. Here's a silly game. Assuming you are tidy souls and keep your record collections in order, what do you have before and after Pete Atkin? This question cropped up on another list about a different artist and, out of curiosity, I had a look at my collection. In fact, there's nothing before Pete (no Amboy Dukes, Amazing Rhythm Aces, etc) and after it's The Band's "Music From Big Pink". (I keep my Jazz and Classical collections separate I might add.) Ian C ============================================================================== From: "Andrew Love" <email address> Subject: MV1330 Re: MV1329 : Musical Alphabet Game Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:54:03 +0100 Ian (and Everyone) I echo Ian's thanks to Richard and Gerry for their Eastbourne reviews. I am one of the *lucky few* who have done it before, but not for twenty-four years. Now, having Buxton (& its reception) tickets in the safe, I'm ga-ga at the prospect of doing it again. I'm happy to play Ian's alphabet game. It's fascinating to discover how PA's music fits in to others' collections. Maybe MV's who sense shared musical tastes in each others' lists of *A*s could swap catalogues? Anyway, for what it's worth here's my list: Ace; Barry Adamson; Allman Brothers (three incarnations thereof); Altered Im ages; Amazing Blondel; Jon Anderson; Laurie Anderson; Apache Indian; Argent; Pete Atkin; Audience; Average White Band; Kevin Ayers. Does anyone out there have a copy of Vivian Stanshall's *Men opening umbrellas ahead*?!! And does anyone have a lyric sheet for Mountain's *Nantucket sleighride*?!!! Andy Love ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:16:47 +0100 From: Leslie Moss <email address> Subject: MV1331 Re: MV1329 : Musical Alphabet Game Ooh I like this game, even though it makes me feel like Nick Hornby! I keep jazz and rock together, but classical and mixed compilations separately. Before PA - Louis Armstrong, then three Latin artists grouped together because their first names all begin with A, namely Antonio Carlos Jobim, Airto Moreira and Astrud Gilberto. After Pete - the B-52's, The Band, The Beach Boys, The Beautiful South and the inevitable Beatles. Oh, and Louis Armstrong is really my wife's, I'm not a great New Orleans jazz fan. I would also like to add my thanks to Gerry and Richard for their review of Eastbourne. I have the advantage of actually having been there, with my Eastbourne friend Jon Prentice to whom I had introduced Pete's music by way of a tape earlier in the day and who kindly put me up for the night. Jon was very impressed and is seeking out the SFM double-CD now. This for someone whose last CD purchase was Jimmy Nail! It was a great pleasure meeting other MVs and I'm sorry that I had to dash off after the event but I had a 5am start the next day. Richard, thanks for the MV badge which I shall treasure. The last badge I got was from the Man from UNCLE fan club! Gerry and Richard have said most of what needs to be said, but a few additional thoughts. Pete is phenomenally prolific - a huge set of varied songs when the audience would I suspect have been content with many fewer songs (not to suggest that it got tedious, but Pete gave amazing value for money). The audience were very enthusiastic and many seemed to have heard his songs before - a shouted-out request for "National Steel" when the instrument was clearly not present raised many laughs. It's not just MVs who congregate at these events clearly. "The Eye of the Universe" was for me too the real highlight of the evening - a superb song that would be in most people's top five had it been released I suspect. "Cotton Mouth" was for me a little disappointing, but that's more an indication of the quality of the company it found itself in. Actually, I thought Pete's intro to that song misleading - he described the character as akin to the eponymous poisonous snake but it was clear that the character is more sinned against than sinning, as indicated by the two segued songs that followed, Luck of the Draw and Where have they all Gone. Thank you Pete for Practical Man, a brilliant song that in my experience is always so much better live than on record (good as it is on record). This must be a perfect example of the matching of lyrics to music. Demanding perfection as a true fan does, it was a shame that Pete was suffering from a tickle in his throat, that affected his singing at times. Trying to recall the lyrics of a hundred odd CJ songs does occasionally prove too much too, though I can relate to that! Hopefully, after (in his own words) "messing it up" at Monyash and getting it almost right at Eastbourne, we can look forward to a definitive performance of Screen Freak at Buxton! Mention of my friend Jon reminds me that I was going to publish the listing of the tape I made up for him. Like an idiot I forgot to note it down, so this is from memory (the order is certainly wrong): Thief in the Night (definitely the opener) Honky Tonk Night Train Blues Tonight Your love is over Practical Man The Flowers and the Wine Thirty-Year Man An Array of Passionate Lovers Girl on a Train and at least one other. Well I am in danger of overstaying my welcome with the non-paying customer so that's it for now. Leslie ============================================================================== From: Cary <email address> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:30:03 +0000 Subject: MV1332 Re: MV1331; MV1329 : Musical Alphabet Game Oooo, I like silly games. Pete sits with the following company on my shelves ...... Before .... All About Eve, Adam Ant, Altan, Tasmin Archer and after loads of B's, if you'll pardon the expression .... Joan Baez, B52's, Beatles, Blondie, Blur, Bowie, Kate Bush, Billy Bragg, Sam Brown. And a swift foray into the C's to mention Capercaille, surely the finest of the Scottish Folk/Rock genre with The Iron Horse a close second. If you like Capercaille rush out and buy The Iron Horse. Hope you're sitting comfortably between these Pete ... you seem to be smiling. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ROCK FOLLIES - The Classic 1970's TV Drama starring Julie Covington, Charlotte Cornwell and Rula Lenska. Online at:- http://members.xoom.com/Follies Pictures,sounds and much more (unofficial site) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat) ============================================================================== From: Ian Chippett <email address> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:59:19 EDT Subject: MV1333 Re : MV1332; MV1331; MV1329 : Musical Alphabet Game A stickler as ever for pointless insane accuracy, I dug out my complete record collection to see who Pete's neighbours would be if I included classical and jazz as well as pop. On one side there would be Louis Armstrong (with Earl Hines), an album including West End Blues, (one of the greatest pieces of music ever made) and on the other J.S. Bach (who needs no introduction) and his Well-Tempered Keyboard. Hope it doesn't turn his head. 8-) Ian C ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:16:41 -0400 From: Tony Currie <email address> Subject: MV1334 Re: MV1329; MV1328; MV1325, 1326 -- Eastbourne Reviews I used to keep my collection in good order, but moved house two years ago and it's now in chaos, so I've relied on a copy of the Guinness Book of Hit Albums to remind me and I come up with: Before: Joan Armatrading (Me, Myself I) not my own purchase, but in the collection. I can't recall the last time I listened to it. (My purchase would have been America - Greatest Hits) After: Average White Band (album same name) again, not my purchase, which would have been the 1970 Ginger Baker's Army album, which I listened to once, I believe. (The next would be Barclay James Harvest Live, which got me through college) Regards, Tony ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:10:00 +0100 From: S J Birkill <email address> Subject: MV1335: Web Updates, re MV1328, MV1297 Richard's Eastbourne photos are now available on the review page at http://www.rwt.co.uk/eastbo98.htm and Brent Mason's tour dates now finalised at http://www.rwt.co.uk/brent98.htm -- Steve ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:26:12 +0100 From: Roy Brown <email address> Subject: MV1336 Re: MV1333; MV1332; MV1331; MV1329 : Musical Alphabet Game I thought it might be David Ackles, another singer-songwriter, with his 'American Gothic', but I was wide of the mark. Vast tracts of the Albion Band intervene, including that most perfect of folk-rock albums, 'No Roses'. But in pole position are two LPs by the Arizona Smoke Revue. I bought the LPs because I liked the group, but I now learn <smug mode on> one of them contains a track called 'Border Song', with a legendary guitar break by Richard Thompson, and is the despair of RT completists everywhere <smug mode off>. Beyond Pete comes Bach with his Brandenburg Concertos (classical), Peter Bellamy with 'The Transports' (folk) and Bread. What *should* be in there, but isn't, is the soundtrack LP for Terrence Malick's marvellous film 'Badlands'. I am not actually sure it ever existed (though I once saw the divider in HMV). I got the video, though, and made my own 'soundtrack LP'. One day, I'm going to spring the £70.00 for the whole of Carl Orff's 'Schulwerk', excerpted in the above along with Erik Satie and James Taylor. (This is all LPs we are talking about; I don't strictly know who brackets PA on CD, though I do have the Beatles there. Could be them... Lower down it's Adiemus II. Should be under Jenkins, strictly, but who would find it there?) Going back to LPs, Julie Covington's 'Beautiful Changes' is safely insulated from the Carpenters by Judy Collins and, specifically, Mary Coughlan's 'Under the Influence'. However, the absence of any Kevin Coyne means that Cream follows next. 'Strange Fruit', and stranger bedfellows..... -- Roy Brown Phone : <phone number> Fax : <fax number> Affirm Ltd Email : <email address> <postal address> 'Have nothing on your systems that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.' ============================================================================== From: Cary <email address> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:54:04 +0000 Subject: MV1337: ?captions again How about a caption competition for Gerry's picture at http://www.rwt.co.uk/eastb02.jpg "and if I turn this knob my right hand will play Perfect Moments, I haven't found the knob that works my mouth for that one yet " Sorry Pete !! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat) ============================================================================== From: "Andrew Love" <email address> Subject: MV1338 Re: MV1337: ?captions again Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 02:12:15 +0100 > >How about a caption competition for Gerry's picture at >http://www.rwt.co.uk/eastb02.jpg > That monkey thinks he can hide in the bushes. He's near my left shoulder now - I can feel 'im. Yeah, but next time he jumps on my back this detonator I've rigged will fix him good! Andy L. ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:38:03 +0100 From: Richard Ross <email address> Subject: MV1339 Re MV1329: Musical Alphabet In the vinyl dept, before Pete come Bryan Adams, the Albion Band (in several of their many guises) and Asia. Afterwards, there's Kevin Ayers, Barclay James Harvest and Les Barker. A bit further along there's David Bedford, Blood Sweat and Tears, and a couple more I'd rather not admit to before we come to Ivor Cutler and Nick Drake. CDs? Alastair Anderson, Laurie Anderson, Altan, Tori Amos, and Ancient Beatbox. Then Baka Beyond, Aly Bain, and The Band. Messrs Cutler and Drake are there, too. I have a suspicion this thread might end up at Frank Zappa.... :-) Cheers Richard ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:26:15 +0100 From: S J Birkill <email address> Subject: MV1340: Have we tracked YOU down yet? Still growing - the list of MV member pages with their own Web sites - or company, department or fan sites which feature them. Scroll down our main page to find the list, and see what moves your fellow MVs ! http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm -- Steve ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:15:11 +0100 From: Christine Guilfoyle <email address> Subject: MV1341: Musical Alphabet I'm not sure about the point of this game, except as an anal retentiveness competition. But of course, being male and in my thirties, I couldn't resist going to look. So... On the left side of Mr Atkin (vinyl only, CDs and classical kept elsewhere) my collection includes David Ackles, Albion Band, Daevid Allan (seemed a good idea at the time), Terry Allen (good idea at any time), Any Trouble. On his right are Kevin Ayres, Roy Bailey, Les Barker, The Barrow Poets (possibly a winner in the most obscure record category), Battlefield Band, The Beat, The Beatles, Beausoleil, David Bedford, Captain Beefheart (okay, he should arguably be under 'C', if not 'V', but you can't expect consistency as well as obsessiveness), Peter Bellamy, John Betjeman...etc. There - I feel better now. -- Mike Walters ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:30:38 +0100 From: <email address> (Roger Barnett) Subject: MV1342 Re: MV1330; MV1329 : Musical Alphabet Game For some reason I hesitate to mention this, but the nearest bit of vinyl alphabetically-speaking to PA in my collection is (*err, shuffle feet*) Atomic Rooster. Also The Allman Brothers, Albion Band, Jon Anderson and various others (its one of those collections that only gets sorted when we move house - the last time was just under 10 years ago). -- Roger Barnett ============================================================================== From: Mark Roberts <email address> Subject: MV1343 RE: MV1342; MV1330; MV1329 : Musical Alphabet Game Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:23:01 +0100 >Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:30:38 +0100 >From: <email address> (Roger Barnett) >Subject: Re: MV1330 Re: MV1329 : Musical Alphabet Game > >For some reason I hesitate to mention this, but the nearest bit of vinyl >alphabetically-speaking to PA in my collection is (*err, shuffle feet*) >Atomic Rooster. > Me To !!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mondex International Limited <postal address> Telephone No: <phone number> Web Site: http://www.mondex.com ============================================================================== From: Neil Norman <email address> Subject: MV1344: A - You're Adorable... B - etc. Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:45:34 +0100 Come on now, are there really no MVs with an ABBA record, vinyl or CD? And is the keeping of records in alphabetical order another sign of the MV "type". Next to my PA CDs (the vinyl is in the loft) are Annie Lennox, early Fairport Convention, Little Feat and the Best of Family (this last I bought recently for £3-99 in Wooly's sale). There is a place for everything, and everything in its place but not alphabetically. The records I am playing at the moment are on the left.This means that for a change of mood or to hear something different I only have to go to the right of the shelves, not too far right though, there must be a reason for not playing that record by ****** since 1992! Neil Norman ============================================================================== From: Cary <email address> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:38:37 +0000 Subject: MV1345 Re: MV1344: A - You're Adorable... B - etc. Neil wrote, > Come on now, are there really no MVs with an ABBA record, > vinyl or CD? And is the keeping of records in alphabetical > order another sign of the MV "type". I'll admit it!! I've got 3 or 4 Abba's on vinyl. I haven't checked who my vinyl Atkin is sitting with - I don't think my vinyl is as well controlled as my CD's - they keep jumping. Tried tonight to introduce some friends to Pete - I'm afraid I failed miserably. I negotiated that they'd listen to I See the Joker, Faded Mansion, Hypertention Kid and Beware of the Beautiful Stranger. I was sure they'd love the lyrics to Kid - they reconed they couldn't hear them. Ha. That has always, in my opinion, been a feature of Pete's singing that you CAN hear virtually every word. I love in Hypertension Kid the way Pete sings the word 'con-tem-plated' with the seeming change of rhythm halfway through the word. I think Pete does that with some other words doesn't he? I can't bring them to mind at the moment... think of any? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ROCK FOLLIES - The Classic 1970's TV Drama starring Julie Covington, Charlotte Cornwell and Rula Lenska. Online at:- http://members.xoom.com/Follies Pictures,sounds and much more (unofficial site) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat) ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:29:19 +0800 (HKT) From: Steve Reels <email address> Subject: MV1346: Contentious? This should put the cat among the pigeons. I have occasionally tried to convert my younger brother to an appreciation of Pete's music. At thirty-three, he's just a bit too young to have been buying albums in the early-to-mid seventies, but otherwise has broadly similar tastes to me. I've even gone to the extent of making up a 30-minute cassette tape for the car for him. I've never yet had a positive reaction, in fact he often demands the music be changed! It's usually accompanied by a comment like "God, this guy's got such a wet voice!". Now before you draw the obvious conclusion that this says more about my brothers critical powers than it does about Pete's voice, let me just say that I recall from my first few exposures to Pete a similar reaction to his voice. Then of course the strength of the songs got me hooked. After that the voice grew on me until now I can hardly imagine the songs without it. What you might call an acquired taste. The questions are: 1) Do any MVs agree with these sentiments about first impressions of Pete's voice? 2) Could this possibly be a reason for the spectacular under-achievement in records sales? Asbestos suit donned. Steve Reels ============================================================================== From: Derek Davis <email address> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:26:48 EDT Subject: MV1347: Musical Alphabet O.K. you've hooked me in again out of Lurk Mode! A very quick listing because it's 2 a.m.: L.P's: Gary & Vera Aspey, Jan Akkerman, Albion Band, Ian A. Anderson, PA/CJ, Joan Baez, Kenny Ball, Bill Barclay, Barron Knights, Mike Batt.......... Cassettes: Abba, America, Chet Atkins, PA/CJ, Bachman Turner, Badfinger, Barclay James Harvest, Mike Batt.......... C.D.'s: Albion Band, Animals, PA/CJ, Barenaked Ladies, Mike Batt......... Not a precise listing because although there is a place for everything that would not appear to be where everything is. I have to admit to an (unplayed) Abba L.P. somewhere and I know there's also a Badfinger L.P. And I can list the Cassettes due to the recent aquisition of "Touch Has A Memory" (He said with a self satisfied grin!) rather than the travel copies of the L.P.s. Looking forward to Buxton, Derek Davis. ============================================================================== From: Mark Roberts <email address> Subject: MV1348 RE: MV1346: Contentious? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:05:35 +0100 >1) Do any MVs agree with these sentiments about first impressions of Pete's >voice? Not at all, I can still remember first hearing Pete singing Sunlight Gate on the radio and it was definitely the voice which drew me to the music. Cheers, Mark Roberts. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mondex International Limited Web Site: http://www.mondex.com ============================================================================== From: Ian Chippett <email address> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 05:50:12 EDT Subject: MV1349 Re : MV1345; MV1344: A - You're Adorable... B - etc. << I was sure they'd love the lyrics to Kid - they reconed they couldn't hear them. Ha. That has always, in my opinion, been a feature of Pete's singing that you CAN hear virtually every word. >> Don't forget, Cary, that none of us are getting any younger and if your friends fall into the same Midnight Voice age range as the rest of us, maybe you should just turn up the volume. Or lend them a magnifying glass to follow the words on the insert. 8-) Ian C ============================================================================== From: Ian Chippett <email address> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 05:50:22 EDT Subject: MV1350: Paris to Buxton Excuse this begging e-mail but I'm giving some thought to coming over (if I possibly can) from Paris for the big show. The problem is, it's O.K. from Paris to London but after I'll need a lift up to Buxton (on Sunday afternoon) and, more to the point, a lift back after the show so as to be in Paris preferably around Monday lunchtime. (Sleep is a secondary consideration) Is there a kind soul out there who can help, always assuming I can get away? I'll willingly help with the petrol, of course, or even the driving if you don't value your life particularly. I'll be away till Sunday evening so don't be upset if I don't answer right away. Ian C ============================================================================== From: Ian Chippett <email address> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 06:15:19 EDT Subject: MV1351 Re : MV1346: Contentious? << 1) Do any MVs agree with these sentiments about first impressions of Pete's voice? 2) Could this possibly be a reason for the spectacular under-achievement in records sales? >> I once suggested that Pete was, like Randy Newman, "not really a singer" but nobody else could do his songs as well as him. I now withdraw or, rather, modify this statement. What I meant was he doesn't sing like anyone else and this rather throws people unaccustomed to his very English voice. If you try to sing, for example, "You Can't Expect To Be Remembered" without the musical accompaniment, you'll probably go wrong as the melody is not so simple as it seems yet Pete sails through it on Monyash without a qualm. Most singers like, well, no names, maybe, go over the top to disguise the pitiful nature of their material. Pete just sings the words and they speak for themselves. As for his lack of commercial success, can anyone think of a lyricist as good or better than Clive who has had any commercial success since the arrival of Rock (if anyone says Dylan or Bernie Taupin, I'll be round with an axe)? Ian C ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:59:23 +0100 From: Roy Brown <email address> Subject: MV1352 Re: MV1346: Contentious? > >This should put the cat among the pigeons. > <snip main body> > >1) Do any MVs agree with these sentiments about first impressions of Pete's >voice? >2) Could this possibly be a reason for the spectacular under-achievement in >records sales? My wife agrees with (1) a bit, and thinks (2) definitely. But I had DTMA going in the car pretty constantly when we met, and it didn't put her off. In fact, it made her think I was a man of discernment :-) Then again, it took her a while to get used to olives, which she now loves. OK, they are not sweet like the black cherries they superficially resemble, but who would want black cherries in their Greek salad? Pete for me is like olives, anchovies, and strong cheeses. An acquired taste, but once acquired, nothing else come close. Buxton is to be part of this process..... Another 'savoury' singer, in this sense, is Leon Rosselson, whose voice, and whose songs, have a lot in common. I like his stuff too. However, one observation re record sales would be to look at what happened with Julie Covington's 'The Beautiful Changes'. Although the interpretation is often stiff, and doesn't match up to Pete's (I think she must have been quite nervous at the time), we have here a set of PA/CJ songs sung by a conventionally attractive voice. (This is not to belittle Julie's special qualities of course). Even so, it didn't quite shift in the same quantities as 'Evita'. Pete and Clive, to me, have always been in the business of casting pearls, drilled or not, before swi^H^H^Hthe general public :-( -- Roy Brown ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:03:49 +0100 From: Gerald Smith <email address> Subject: MV1353 Re: MV1346: Contentious? At 07:57 14/08/98 +0100, Steve Reels wrote: > >This should put the cat among the pigeons. > >2) Could this (Pete's Voice) possibly be a reason for the spectacular under-achievement in >records sales? > >Asbestos suit donned. Steve (and all) No, I don't think so. Let's face it, if Leonard Cohen and John Martyn can get away with it, anyone can! Gerry Smith Taking Cover Peckham, SE London Gerald Smith's Homepage : http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gerald.smith/index.htm ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:10:43 +0000 From: Stephen Payne <email address> Subject: MV1354: Misc reactions Thanks to Gerry and Richard for their very nice reviews of the Eastbourne concert. How much nicer you both were about Pete's occasional lyrical lapse than I'd managed to be in my well-intentioned but clumsy tease about Winchester. I actually find it amazing that Pete can remember quite so many words (Pete, why don't you bring along some lyric sheets? I don't think that would look bad, would it? It's accepted practice for poets, after all). I was pleased to see that Pete experimented with Payday Evenings on guitar ( spot the rampaging ego at work in this comment), as it was one of the piano songs that I thought worked particularly well on (my pathetic) guitar from the lovely web-site arrangement. Finally, it was interesting to learn that Pete was particularly fond of Pearl Driller. I only got to know this song since the CD release, as DTMA had been missing from my collection (ironically, until just before the CD, when I paid over the odds for a not-so-great original.) It's really a lovely song. Lyrically, for some reason, it reminds me of Laughing Boy. I somehow imagine that the girl in the gold silk jacket might be the girl holding back her hair to light a cigarette (seen across a crowded bar but never encountered, a bit like the girl on the train). Such a gesture would at least give a good view of the hands - small and delicate? steady? And musically it's so compelling: is there anything peculiar about the chord changes? For once I didn't have to look up and learn any new fingerings, yet the arrangement still sounds fresh and unusual. (Maybe this could be our song of the week?) First impressions of voices can be misleading for sure. I remember when I first heard Van Morrison I found his voice deeply unattractive, but now I think it is my favourite of all. I agree with Cary and Ian (and others) that the greatness of Pete's singing is in the way he allows the words to come through, almost as though he were speaking (or orating, perhaps) in tune. A great lyricist with commercial success? Well I'd vote for Paul Simon (ducking away from Ian's axe ?), although his lyrically most interesting work has probably been his least successful commercially. Or Joni Mitchell? Or how about Sondheim? S ============================================================================== From: Mark Roberts <email address> Subject: MV1355 RE: MV1351; MV1346: Contentious? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:55:34 +0100 > >As for his lack of commercial success, can anyone think of a lyricist as good >or better than Clive who has had any commercial success since the arrival of >Rock (if anyone says Dylan or Bernie Taupin, I'll be round with an axe)? > By axe, I'll take it you mean your guitar ! >Cheers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ============================================================================== From: Cary <email address> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:32:46 +0000 Subject: MV1356 Re: MV1353; MV1346: Contentious? > No, I don't think so. Let's face it, if Leonard Cohen and > John Martyn can get away with it, anyone can! > And what about Bob Dylan? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat) ============================================================================== From: Cary <email address> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:32:46 +0000 Subject: MV1357 Re: MV1349; MV1345; MV1344: A - You're Adorable... B - etc. > none of us are getting any > younger and if your friends fall into the same Midnight > Voice age range as the rest of us, maybe you should just > turn up the volume. Hehehe - I'm not in the normal age range - I'm much too young for this group really. And my friends were even younger. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat) ============================================================================== From: Cary <email address> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:32:46 +0000 Subject: MV1358 Re: MV1352; MV1346: Contentious? > songs sung by a conventionally attractive voice. (This is > not to belittle Julie's special qualities of course). Interesting point though I think that Julie's voice is still something of an individual taste. Her voice seems to attract either lovers or haters with little in the middle. My sister thinks she sings permanently off key and there were some very negative comments about her voice in some of the debates over who is/was the best Evita. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat) ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:33:21 -0400 From: Chris Harris <email address> Subject: MV1359: PA/CJ Fairport, rain and records Dear M.V's, At last the holiday has started and I can catch up on the backlog of MV's accumulating in my own personal corner of the monolith that is Compuserve. It's 4 in the morning and the rain has started after days of serious sunshining and later today we make the pilgrimage to a field in Oxfordshire to be with thousands of fellow "Friends of Fairport".at the annual Fairport Convention reunion. Appearances this year include Loudon Wainwright and Hank Wangford, two names that have been heard whispered in this very virtual room. Fairport have covered a lot of ground musically in their various guises and have a penchant for picking out worthwhile songs to cover (and the occasional duffer I might add) including such as James Taylors "Frozen Man" and Loudon Wainwrights "Men" (Worthwhile that is - not duffers). This of course set me to wondering firstly what - if any - PA/CJ songs could be suitable for Fairport to cover and secondly would such a large open -air festival venue suit Pete's style. The festival is unique(ish) in that many of the fans are mature in body and mind and appreciate "good" well performed music. My initial reaction was - no - it's not really Pete's preferred "intimate" concert venue, but thinking on it further and considering the guests that they have had over the last 15 years I could be persuaded otherwise. But which song could (or should ) be given the Fairport treatment. One with a distinct melody and scope for an appropriate instrumental break (middle 8?). I considered Canoe with it's natural break after the second verse for the (unusually early) instrumental or perhaps Rider to the worlds end or Sunlight gate or .........I think I better think it out again. Too many songs that I don't recall well enough. On another topic I'm intrigued by the concept of having ones record collection in alphabetical order, I'd heard about people like that and I am suitably humbled to be in their E-mailed presence. This seems to me to be in the same category as ironing socks - ok for your mum to do but really life's too short. My record collection is arranged left to right (!) with only the right hand end being easily accessible. This means that over the years the favoured few migrate to the right and the "also rans" to the left. A sort of Darwinian process of vinyl unnatural selection. But for the - sorry - for the sake of entering the spirit , if not the letter , of the discussion I'll go and look. OK - of approx 200 records BOTS and LL are at 1 and 5 next to Mozart Hafner Serenade, Stills Young Band -Long may you run and The Complete Mr Fox. (At the very left hand end is "India -Song of the Bengali Vaisnavas sung by Acyutananda Swami - which I don't believe ever made the Radio 1 playlist ) I offer this fascinating insight into one microcosm of life in Surrey England for you to do with as you please . Personally I would suggest that it involves fairly prompt use of the delete key. (I think it's stopped raining ) Chris ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:27:24 +0900 From: MM <email address> Subject: MV1360: Musical Alphabet & Voices The musical alphabet game is actually a bit hard for me. I was possibly the last person in the western world to buy a CD player, and rather than just buy all my old albums in CD, I am in the process of trying to educate myself in some classical stuff. As I am still in the "best of" mode, and as the only Pete Atkin I have is the recent double CD, he slots in alongside a Bach organ album and a Beethoven collection. If I pretended I had Pete in vinyl, and if my collection was in any sort of order, I have a horrible feeling that he would be surrounded by Alice Cooper, Adam Ant & Chuck Berry (I can't remember if I had an Allman Brothers record or not.) As you can see, some of us take longer to mature than others, but I did buy most of my records long ago. My next step will be to try to gain an appreciation of some jazz, so any suggestions for reasonably accessible jazz albums are welcome. Incidently, my compliments to you all on the size, the organisation, and the discrimination of your collections. To voices. I would call Pete's voice adequate at the least, I can't think of any of his songs where my first impression was that a better voice would have improved it. Apart from a few artists who have an obviously sensational voice, usually the voice seems to end up suiting the material and it is hard to imagine it being sung by anyone else. As someone has pointed out, Leonard Cohen got away with it. Rod Stewart is one that occurred to me as well. My daughter assures me that Maria Carey has a brilliant voice, which just goes to show that a good voice alone is not enough. Murray McGlew ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:27:18 +0100 From: Leslie Moss <email address> Subject: MV1361 Re: MV1352; MV1346: Contentious? >From: Roy Brown <email address> >> >>1) Do any MVs agree with these sentiments about first impressions of Pete's >>voice? >>2) Could this possibly be a reason for the spectacular under-achievement in >>records sales? > >My wife agrees with (1) a bit, and thinks (2) definitely. My wife too finds Pete's voice too flat/English/whatever, though I am hopeful that several hours of Buxton will go some way to achieving what years of exposure to the albums has so far failed to achieve. I agree that Pete's voice is something of an acquired taste ala Van the Man. Actually, I think that the under-achievement in record sales is due to a number of factors. 1. The music didn't (doesn't?) fit neatly into a genre. 2. The late sixties and early seventies were the era of 'progressive' rock and pomp rock. Balladeers/singer-songwriters were nowhere near as popular then as they had been in the mid-sixties. It was deeply uncool to admit to anything other than blues/rock and roll influences. My personal view is that if Pete had fronted a band on a regular basis and released albums in the band's name he and Clive might have had greater success (rather like Becker and Fagan did). 3. To succeed in that era you had to be seen to attract trans-atlantic support too. Clive's lyrics and Pete's voice were just too English (ironic given Clive's origins of course!). Which prompts another thought - there has been much discussion in the press recently about the meaning of Englishness compared to Britishness. Perhaps we can create a vanguard for literate Englishness as opposed to football hooligansim. And what is it about the voice, music and lyrics that makes us identify them as 'English'? Thoughts? Leslie In short, the odds were stacked against the songs being commercial successes. We should just be grateful that the lack of commercial success only discouraged Pete and Clive after six albums worth of sublimity. ============================================================================== From: Cary <email address> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:01:43 +0000 Subject: MV1362: Musing Continuing the thoughts of how successful Atkin/James song SHOULD have been...... I wonder what critical acclaim would have been achieved had Julie Covington recorded some Atkin/James songs on her second, self titled album. She was at the top of her commercial powers then and the media and public were ready to love anything she did (strange then that the Album received such mixed reviews?). I wonder too whether people would have rushed out and bought 'The Beautiful Changes' if they'd known of it and it had been available. I would have! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat) ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:54:41 +0100 From: S J Birkill <email address> Subject: MV1363: More Music on Smash Flops [but see correction, MV1364] New audio - 2 numbers from "What Are You Doing After The Show?": More In Anger Than In Sorrow: http://www.rwt.co.uk/morein.htm I Got Special Glasses: http://www.rwt.co.uk/glasses.htm -- Steve ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:54:41 +0100 From: S J Birkill <email address> Subject: MV1364: Correction - More Music on Smash Flops Whoops - New audio - 2 numbers from "What Are You Doing After The Show?", now with the _right_ URLs!: More In Anger Than In Sorrow: http://www.rwt.co.uk/morein.ram I Got Special Glasses: http://www.rwt.co.uk/glasses.ram -- Steve ============================================================================== From: "Andrew Love" <email address> Subject: MV1365 Re: MV1337; MV1338: ?captions again Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:02:46 +0100 Hypertension is setting in now, Kids. Hasn't anyone else seen the monkey? Do I need therapy? Look carefully at the picture and tell me I'm not going barmy - *please*! Andy L. ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:56:43 +0100 From: S J Birkill <email address> Subject: MV1366 Re: MV1330 (Andy Love, alphabet, Mountain) Hi Andy, Yeah, those words (Nantucket Sleighride) gave me a problem too. That was before AltaVista and co. It all comes clear at http://www.rru.com/~meo/music/nan-slrd.html Steve ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:50:50 +0100 From: S J Birkill <email address> Subject: MV1367 Re: MV1329 (Ian C, Alphabetics) Must admit when this thing started I wondered if I might be alone in keeping things arranged by flavour, rather than name. I don't mean category -- that would be to make the same mistake that keeps good records and books out of many shops. But simply shuffling things into an array that puts like near like. Within the broader, real, categories anyway, rock/pop/folk/blues, classical and jazz. So for instance my Albion Band(s) are with Steeleye and Fairport, Richard Thompson and Sandy Denny, Tim and Maddy, Shirley and Dolly, and not too far from Nic Jones and Martin Carthy. Jan Akkerman stands alone. My Jon Anderson lives near Yes and King Crimson, not too far one way from Supertramp, Queen, Genesis, BJH, Moody Blues even, or the other way from Caravan, Gentle Giant, Soft Machine, Quiet Sun or Mike Oldfield. My Abba relates to Carpenters and in a roundabout way to Bread. The other direction (up-alphabet), Band are with Dylan, through Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell and Buffy Sainte-Marie; Beach Boys, Beatles and Bee Gees have their own territories. Blood Sweat and Tears are with Chicago and David Foster, Jackson Browne is with Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Eagles and a whole bunch of California suspects, and Jack Bruce (I haven't named everyone in that part of the alphabet) is safely with Cream, Barbara Thompson, Colosseum, If, Traffic, Blind Faith, Hendrix and into Led Zeppelin territory. This is all much easier to do with cassettes. The '70s collection was about 550 units big, initially distilled off the '60s open reels, later augmented from 'Sounds of the 70s'. Tapes facilitate construction of a 2-dimensional array, cross-linked from one row to the next as well as along the rows. With a chest you can extend this to three dimensions, though the vertical links stretch things a bit. And however you group less well represented artists onto single series' of tapes, one fool will always go and work with someone 'out of group' and then you don't know _where_ to put him. And of course in any array there occur voids, which you fill with unlinkable artists, or if the void's large enough you fill it with a distinct category, such as jazz (of which my collection was always small) or films or shows. I suppose the ultimate array would be a multidimensional version of one of Pete Frame's family trees. That was in the days when I had time to care about what went where... But Pete - well, not many links really, but a tendency for what I might have called at the time 'British solo singer/songwriters'. People like Roy Harper, Duncan Browne, Al Stewart, Terry Reid, Nick Drake, Cat Stevens, Elton John and even David Bowie one way, and goodness, not too far from Ivor Cutler the other, linking to Viv Stanshall, Neil Innes, the Bonzos and yes, the Rutles! No wonder when Pete looked at my CD collection (which, being more recent, has never been so well organised anyway) he couldn't find any pattern at all! I'm gratified to discover that other members also file according to their own systems, or none. -- Steve ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:49:16 +0100 From: S J Birkill <email address> Subject: MV1368: MV merchandise etc., status Hi all, Just about to send out the week's digest as I logged in another new member, Stephen Melzack (good to have you aboard Stephen, and a public welcome also to recent newcomers Brian Derby and Jack Coates), and updated the status footer on his personalised MV1200 welcome message. Thought I should refresh everyone on where we stand re Monyash recordings and Buxton reception tickets. The 2-CD set - 12 copies left (out of 100). The videotape - 3 NTSC (US) copies left (out of 50 PAL + 8 NTSC). The reception - 5 tickets left (out of 70). Midnight Voices - current membership 147 (no limit). For full details of these see our previous messages, especially MV1200. If you've lost this please request a re-send! If you're coming to the reception don't forget your Buxton Concert tickets too -- I know some people are leaving it till nearer the date to book at the Opera House, but the best seats are selling out faster as the date approaches, the poster campaign begins and publicity appears in the local press, radio and TV. Best Wishes Steve Birkill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Web Digest week 50 (09.08.98, MV1329-1368) ends | index | prev | next |Pete Atkin Home | Discography | Julie Covington | Audio Clips | Visitors' Comments | Join Midnight VoicesThe discussion forum for fans of Pete Atkin and Clive James, their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.Midnight VoicesMidnight Voices, the Pete Atkin and Julie Covington Websites are operated and maintained by Steve Birkill
